Faith & Purpose

Welcome everyone to Faith
and Purpose podcast.

Each episode of this podcast contains the
personal testimony of an ordinary person

transformed by an extraordinary God.

My name is Caitlin and I'm
here to introduce this podcast

for my friend Jesse Duke.

Jesse is a husband, father, author,
life recovery guide, lay counselor,

and small group leader, but his
most important role is disciple.

As a disciple of Jesus.

Jesse created this podcast to help other
believers tell their faith stories.

We'll be hearing the personal
testimonies of all sorts of people

who have one thing in common,
Jesus has transformed their lives.

Jesus used parables because he created
us to learn best through story.

And as we listen to how God has worked
in others lives, we find encouragement

and inspiration for our own faith walk.

Whether you are already a believer, or
just a curious seeker, we believe that

as you listen to these stories, you will
be encouraged on your own faith journey.

We are sure that God can speak to you
through one of these episodes, and that

you will see that our Heavenly Father
truly works all things together for

our good, When we simply love and trust
him if you are currently going through

a trial We believe that you will come
to see that your troubles Heartbreaks

and failures are not gravestones, but
stepping stones into new life in Christ.

Here's Jesse with today's guest

Welcome to Faith and Purpose podcast.

Today, I'm honored to have my friend and
brother in Christ, Robert Hampshire to

tell his story, Robert is the Worship
and Discipleship Pastor at Sherald First

Baptist Church in Sherald, South Carolina.

He's an awesome worship leader
and a great communicator.

Welcome, Robert.

Thank you for being
here to tell your story.

Thanks, Jesse.

So, Robert, I know you've been walking
with the Lord for a long time, and you've

been in ministry for a long time, so,
uh, I know there's no way you can tell

your whole life story in an hour or so.

But I appreciate you being here.

Just give us some highlights of
how the Lord has shown up in your

life and feel free to just talk
about whatever comes to mind.

And I may ask some
questions along the way.

So go right ahead.

So I was born in Northern Ohio,
a small farming poor town.

And, uh, I like to, like to tell people
I grew up in a single wide trailer.

I didn't grow up in it, but I.

My, my first few years, maybe first
five years was in a single wide trailer

in the trailer park and we didn't have
much, but, uh, you know, my, my dad was

just kind of a working in a, working in
an industry and my mom stayed at home.

And then, uh, we left there when I
was five, my dad, dad was chasing a,

uh, kind of a next step in his career.

Uh, and, and that wasn't
completely his choice.

The company that my dad worked with.

Tanked and a lot of people lost a lot of
money and it was really bad situation.

So they said, we're going to get out
of here and get out of Northern Ohio.

There's nothing here for us.

And so with, uh, because of God's
providence, we ended up moving

to a place in Georgia for a
year, which didn't, didn't work

out quite like he hoped either.

And then we moved to the
upstate of South Carolina.

Uh, and then I was in first grade.

I remember I showed up to first
grade about two weeks late.

And so that was, that was tough.

Not only because I was a Northerner, so
I was called a Yankee and city slicker.

I remember people, and I didn't even
know what either of those terms meant.

You know, I just knew I talked different
than, uh, than the people in small, rural,

uh, small town, rural South Carolina.

But, uh, but I also.

I felt like I had no friends because,
you know, I showed up two weeks

late into the start of school,
everybody already knew each other

and, or they were already from there.

And so that, that was actually pretty
helpful for me in, I guess, maybe

developing, uh, Maybe some more confidence
later on in life about who I was and how

to make friends and that kind of thing.

But, uh, so I stayed in South
Carolina upstate is a town called

Chesney, actually, from first grade
through senior in high school.

And so elementary, middle high school,
when I graduated high school, I

went to North Greenville university.

And spent, uh, I, I crammed a four year
degree into five years, which was, uh,

you know, pretty impressive, I think,
and then ended up, uh, I stayed around

Greenville for about another year, got
married, met my wife in, uh, around the

area, she didn't go to the same school,
but we had mutual friends and actually

some of my mutual friends ended up being
her family, her, her family members.

So then we moved to Virginia where I.

I served as an intern at a church for
a couple of years, and that developed

into something else, which developed
into something else, and I became a

family pastor, and then a church plant
pastor, planted a church, and that

went as well as I could have imagined,
and God called us away from there.

And so now we live back in South
Carolina, a completely different

part of the state, but, uh, it was,
it was just where God moved us and

some things fell, fell into my lap.

And again, we'd call
that God's providence.

And I serve at a church now
in Sterol, South Carolina.

As a, uh, as one of the pastors on staff.

Let me go back to, uh, North Greenville.

So you managed to cram
four years into five.

So what was your degree in?

Well, I started off with radio
broadcasting and I don't remember

exactly why, but that, that probably
isn't the most promising career choice.

Uh, so I switched to psychology.

However, the, I got saved when I was
in fifth grade and pretty soon after

that, God laid on my heart, a desire to
preach or a calling to preach back then.

That's the only term I knew, uh,
what to use a call to preach and,

but a, a call to vocational ministry.

And so I was, I was really pursuing
that in one way or another.

But I was, uh, encouraged by
another pastor at the church that

I had been saved in and that my
parents got saved in because we

got, got saved around the same time.

Um, I was encouraged to pursue a trade,
not to pursue a ministry degree so that,

you know, cause the idea was all you need
is the Bible and, uh, if God wants you

to be a pastor, he'll give you a church.

But that church may kick you out.

So if that keeps you up, then you're
going to need a trade to fall back on too.

And I understand why he gave that advice.

I don't necessarily think that was
the best advice I could have been

given, but I followed it nonetheless.

And so that's why I hit it
in the radio broadcasting.

And then, cause I really, I mean,
to be honest, I had no idea what

else I would do other than pastor,
but I was supposed to get a trade.

So I did that.

And then I moved in psychology
thinking, you know, Christian

counseling would be a helpful trade.

And they say everybody who gets into
Uh, gets a degree in psychology, which

is what I ended up graduating with.

Everybody who goes that route is
a little crazy and they're just

trying to figure themselves out.

So, uh, so that very well may be true,
but that's what I ended up graduating

with the, the psychology degree.

Well, can we go back to when you got saved
and can you tell us how that came about?

And, and then how did you perceive
God's calling on your life?

Yeah.

You said that happened at a young age.

It did.

I would have been, you know, so got saved
in fifth grade and then it would have

been, uh, as a, as a preteen or early
teenage years that, uh, since God's

calling for, for, uh, pastoral ministry.

But so my family were not.

Or my family was not a Christian family.

We had, uh, we didn't go to church.

We, I didn't know the name of Jesus
previous to maybe fourth grade.

And we, I had been to a
couple of churches up in.

Ohio is my, like my grandparents church,
but, uh, uh, with the risk of being

too judgmental, it seemed like that
was more of a, just kind of a club,

kind of a country club for mostly
elderly, a handful of elderly people.

And, uh, and, and I'd only gone there
maybe twice that I, that I can recall.

And so when we moved to South Carolina.

Yeah, my parents weren't Christians.

Uh, me and my two brothers
were not Christians.

And so we were just living a
normal life, I guess, you know,

normal American non Christian life.

And, and we didn't even have the
Southern Bible Belt mentality because

that's not where we were from.

And so I knew, knew nothing of
the church and the Bible, Jesus.

But I do remember seeing a leather, a
black leather bound book on my, on my

parents coffee table when I was a kid.

And this would have been Third, fourth
grade or so, um, and for whatever

reason it was on the coffee table.

I'm not sure because I don't
remember the timeline, but I remember

asking my dad, what is this book?

Because you just don't see
leather bound books too often.

And he explained to me something.

I don't, I don't remember what
he explained, but I didn't

understand whatever it was.

And come to find out
again, that was a Bible.

And, uh, and then I, I would find out
several years later, it kind of came

back to my mind several years later.

Oh yeah.

I remember when I, what that
book was and it was a Bible.

And so what was happening in my family's
life at that time, though, at least

I know this reason why it was on the
coffee table was because God was.

pursuing my dad and was, God had sent
a couple people to our house that

were, that were part of this church.

They were just on this random kind of
cold call house to house visitation,

which doesn't happen too much anymore.

But, um, cause people aren't
home as much as they used to be.

But they just randomly stopped
by the house, talked to my dad.

And for whatever reason, God had
began to open his heart at that time.

And so he was willing
to listen to the gospel.

Whereas before that, he was, he was
never really willing to listen to it,

you know, for the many years before
that, uh, that he had heard the gospel.

And so after, I think three
visits is, is his story after

three visits of these guys.

Um, he ended up praying and getting
saved and I remember it was, I stepped

downstairs from our, uh, my bedroom
was upstairs and I was, I stepped

downstairs and I was kind of peeking
around the corner and I saw my dad

with these guys and he was kneeling
down on the living room floor.

We had this nasty green shag carpet
and he was kneeling down to the floor.

And he was crying and I've never
seen my dad cry and, uh, never seen

him kneel down like that either.

It was really weird.

And so I didn't know what was going on
and, uh, thought it was kind of odd and

come to find out he'd got saved that day.

You know, the next Sunday,
our family was in church.

My mom ends up getting saved.

My brothers got saved.

And then, um, and I
was still pretty young.

So when, when I was, uh, in third
or fourth grade, it had to have

been third grade, I remember
being at a revival service.

So this was.

Uh, early on when we first started
going to the church and our church

had a lot of revival services.

So I remember going to it.

I, I had no clue what was going on
and what was being talked about.

It wasn't really paying attention, but
the, the, the traveling evangelist or

preacher or whatever he was for the
revival, he, uh, as an illustration, he

had a couple guys bind me in thinking.

It was, it was either a
thick rope or it was chains.

I can't remember what it was.

Chains make a better story, so
we'll say that's what it was.

And so they bound me in chains
and they carried me down the aisle

of the church, real small church,
to the double swinging doors.

And that was, it was an illustration
as if the angels were throwing

somebody into the lake of fire.

And, you know, so . So I like to
say I had to get saved after that.

I didn't have a choice, you know, , it
was, uh, I, I was human, so I, I had to

be moved by that kind of illustration.

But again, I, I had no
idea what that meant.

Um, I wasn't, I hadn't even
really been paying attention.

So I said I got saved
at that, at that moment.

But it wasn't until, uh, fifth grade
that I really began to realize I was

a sinner and that I needed saving.

And that I'm, that Jesus
was the only savior.

And so, um, so the Holy Spirit
convicted me of my sin, like I

said, when I was in fifth grade.

And, uh, then I think it was maybe just
kind of in a normal, normal service.

And, and I remember really
being convicted of my sin.

I was at home.

I was actually at home by myself one day.

I remember that.

And I was sitting outside,
uh, on the, uh, front steps.

And again, God convicted my, God
convicted my sin and I didn't

know what to do with that.

So that following Sunday is when I
actually, uh, kind of came forward,

talked to somebody and got saved.

And then, and then in that church,
one of the, probably the best things

about that church, I guess, was
that they talked about the call to

ministry or the call to pastor a lot.

And, you know, most churches probably
don't talk about it too much.

And so the downside of that, I guess,
was that there were several other

men in the church that also said
God had called them to be a pastor.

And, you know, that may not
have actually been the case.

It was almost like that you, if
you're a good Christian man, you're

going to be called to be a pastor.

You know, it's like, uh,
that, that was the next step.

And so some of them, I think, felt
the, maybe the, the influence.

to, to do that and to step forward
and to tell the church they're

called to be a pastor, when maybe
God really hadn't because they didn't

want to be a second class Christian.

Well, nevertheless, God used
that to, uh, to convict me.

And I remember I was, I was listening.

It was a period of time, short period
of time, but I remember hearing sermons

and I remember reading scripture and
it was, I mean, it was just this heavy

burden on me that basically Holy Spirit
saying, that's what you need to be doing.

Or that's what I'm calling you to do.

And, and I could just really see
myself up there, you know, in front

of a congregation, preach and teaching
and, and it just made total sense.

And so God placed in
me a desire to do that.

Years later, I would read 1st Timothy
3 where it says if anyone aspires to

the office of a bishop or overseer,
pastor, elder, then they desire a good

thing or they aspire to a good thing.

And so that's, that's what God put
in my heart when I was a teenager

was that aspiration or that desire.

And, and then thing after thing
after thing really confirmed that.

And I started preaching when I
was in, I guess, high school.

Maybe even middle school.

I can't remember.

Um, you know, might've been
my first actual sermon, which

was horrible, of course.

And I worked really hard on it, but
it only lasted about five minutes.

And, uh, may or may not have been a
sacrilegious, whatever, but, uh, but

anyways, and then, and then God confirmed
that through the years and started

doing some things more in high school.

And, uh, I got some
more stories about that.

Even, uh, I preached on a street
corner in that town for about.

And probably six years, most
every Sunday for about six years.

That may be, uh, exaggeration, but
Well, tell us about that, because

this is, uh, not many people were
going to do that kind of thing.

What was that like?

Yeah, well, again, the, the church I was
part of, uh, if you're a man, if you're

a Christian man, then the, the next
step, you know, if you, if you're really

spiritual, would be preaching, pastoring.

Um, I guess they would just call
it preaching back then, you know,

be an evangelist, be a missionary.

be a teacher in some capacity.

So one of the outlets of that was
our church had a what they call a

street street preaching ministry.

And so there was a corner
in, uh, at an intersection.

in that town of Chesney that we would go
to every Sunday afternoon at three or four

o'clock and there would sometimes be 50
of us, maybe more, and all the men wore

suits in that church and all the women
wore dresses, so I'm sure it was quite a

sight to see and, uh, and back then, um,
street preaching was probably a little

bit more, uh, common in the late 1990s.

the late 20th century.

And you know, it wasn't as common
as maybe as it had been, but at that

time it was still, you still saw it.

And so that's what our church was doing.

And we thought the pastor
thought maybe that was the

best approach to reach people.

And, uh, so sometimes there might be
10, 20 preachers and then their families

and their kids, and we'd have signs
and we'd have banners and we'd have

PVC pipe, uh, structured signs printed.

I mean, things like repent or perish,
turn or burn, you know, those,

those kinds of stereotypical things.

That was our church.

And, uh, so we, that's what we did.

And so, because I was called to preach,
that's what I started doing too.

And so all through high school
and then into college a little

bit, uh, Sunday afternoon, that's
where I was on that street corner.

And, uh, we ended up moving
from, from one street corner to.

Another street corner, same
intersection, but I think we

got kicked off that sidewalk.

So we, we moved to another street corner.

And then for whatever reason,
that stopped working out.

Maybe we got kicked off that property.

So we moved across the street to a
vacant lot to that street corner.

So we just kind of moved
around the whole street corner.

But what was interesting is that
that intersection, what, or that

town, that road, There was a
lot of cruising, they called it.

So, I mean, there would be hundreds
of cars, maybe thousands of cars on

a Sunday afternoon that would pass
through and they would, they would

drive down, make this loop down at the
elementary school, drive back to the

high school, make a loop and, and all
day Sunday, that's what they were doing.

And, uh, so you could say we had an
audience, I guess, to some extent, but,

but I was, you know, I was in high school
now and I was at the public high school.

And so people would see me out there.

And, uh, and then I started playing
football for the high school, which just

be honest was really one of the things
that God used to, I would say change

my life and make me even help me become
who I am today was high school football

as maybe silly as that might sound.

Um, but, and so I would see my
foot, my football friends and

they were cruising down the street
and, you know, they didn't, they

didn't know what to make of it.

And I didn't know what to make of it,
but that's what we were supposed to do.

And, um, it was interesting because
I don't know how much fruit,

spiritual fruit, came from that
ministry, the street preaching.

But again, I was just trying to be
faithful to do what I was supposed to do.

And I know a lot of other people were too.

And we were just hoping, you know,
God's Word wouldn't return void.

And, uh, and I think probably there
were some people that were touched.

We just didn't hear about it.

It took root in you anyway.

It sure did, yeah.

Yeah, absolutely.

Well, tell me about this.

High school football had
a big influence on you.

How was that?

How did that come about?

Yeah, so there was really, say, several
aspects of it, and I probably should,

um, should spend some more time thinking.

It's a statement I've made before, but
I haven't really spent a whole lot of

time writing down my thoughts about that.

But, um, so I probably should.

But one aspect was I found some friends
and previous to high school, uh, because

my family wasn't really well connected
with any other families in the town,

except for a couple of families in the
church, which didn't have any teenagers,

didn't really have too many friends.

Uh, and I didn't really know
how to be a friend, just to be

honest, especially the guys.

just didn't, uh, my dad and I didn't
have the best of relationships.

And so I'd really been having
good friend friendships with other

guys and that would come later.

But football gave me that.

So that was good.

Football gave me the, you know, the
community, the camaraderie of a team,

um, and the team sport aspect of it.

You know, we're working on, on
a, a project together, you know,

trying to win a football game.

So all that was really beneficial to me.

Uh, and, and I think you would probably
get it in other sports as well.

Few sports are as aggressive and,
uh, and emotional as football because

of, because of the impact, you know,
it's an impact sport and, um, and so

you, you really have to, you really
have to push yourself again, other,

I'm sure other sports have a similar.

Similar aspect to it.

But, but in football, you know, because
of just the violence of it, I would

imagine it's more like military than
any other sport, just because of

the violence, um, which for me was,
was a really good thing because I,

I just never been pushed like that.

Never had to exert that much
energy, never had to hit somebody.

And so all of that was, was really good
for me and just kind of developed some

healthy aggression, maybe that doesn't.

Maybe it doesn't develop healthy in
everybody, but it was good for me.

And so I developed some aggression,
learned how to use, kind of control

my emotions, even control my anger.

And because, because anger is a, is
a helpful emotion unless it's not

controlled, if it's left unbridled
and, and sports helped me develop that.

Kind of, uh, control or
learning how to channel that.

And, but then also the physical
aspect of getting in shape.

So previous to my, the summer before my
ninth grade year, I was the same height.

I am right now, uh, hit my
growth spurt growth spurt early.

Um, so around seventh and eighth
grade, I was six, one about two 30.

So I was a big kid, but.

I had pretty much no muscle.

It was, that was just all fat.

Cause I never really did anything.

I mean, I just, you know, stayed at
home and played video, video games.

Well, not video games,
called computer games then.

Cause we didn't have a, didn't
have a video game system.

Just really didn't do much.

I was an artist, I guess.

That's about all I did.

And so I started playing football
and started working out, started

running, started doing pushups,
nothing I've ever done before.

And so it, it's.

I developed or discovered in
athleticism that I didn't know.

So that really gave me a hobby.

It gave me something to do.

Um, it gave me some, some
strength that I didn't have,

which built some confidence in me.

And so kind of that whole world of, I
guess, what you would hope sports would

do in somebody is what it did in me.

And, uh, and so that would then
translate into really the rest of

my life, staying relatively fit.

You know, there's, there's times and
seasons where, where especially, you know,

you get married and have a few little
kids, it's kind of hard to stay relatively

fit, but, uh, but it gave me enough of a
foundation that I can keep going back to.

And, um, and that really
characterizes my life now.

I mean, I'm, I am, I play sports as
often as I can, volleyball and, uh,

basketball, uh, you know, go for a
run or go for a walk or go to the gym.

And all that stemmed from,
uh, from high school football.

So let me ask you another question.

What'd you do as soon as
you got out of college?

And you mentioned being
an associate pastor.

So what year did you graduate?

Well, I graduated high school in 2002
and then went to college that fall.

And, and while I was in college,
this was, you know, I say maybe I

shouldn't have hit it into radio
broadcasting, but what that did for me.

God, God at work making the best
of a, uh, maybe not wise decision.

I don't know if it was wise or not,
but you know, looking back, who knows?

Hindsight is 20, 20.

But what God did was he used that
radio broadcasting to put me in touch

with some people, gave me some really
good connections with some people.

I developed a, uh, I got to use some.

Broadcasting equipment, which was, was,
would end up being helpful later on, you

know, audio editing and video editing,
um, which I've done quite a bit of.

And then kind of learning how to
use some technology, you know, uh,

that, and that got me interested in
music as well, which I hadn't really

been, especially Christian music.

My understanding of Christian music
was, was very limited because of that.

Suits on men, dresses on women, street
preaching church that I was part of.

Uh, you know, music was a, uh,
if it wasn't a piano and organ,

it wasn't Christian, basically.

And, and even then, the the selection
of what is that, what passes for

Christian, still pretty small.

And, and so radio broadcasting got
me introduced into Christian music,

which turns out was very useful for me.

And then it also allowed me to see,
I got to experience some things and

to see parts of the world that I, I
probably would have never been to because

through radio broadcasting, I started
and because of football in high school.

Those kind of came together and I started
broadcasting football games on our

school radio, uh, did some basketball
games too, but mostly football games.

And so because of that, Because our
college to, you know, uh, drove to Florida

to play games or Virginia or West Virginia
or Kentucky, Tennessee, Pennsylvania.

So I ended up traveling all those
places, saw a lot more of the

world that I'd never seen before.

Uh, through that, I ended up going to
flew to California and flew to Nashville.

And.

So that, that turned out to be, like
I said, a really good experience that,

uh, that I wasn't, wasn't expecting.

But then I, then I graduated with a
psychology degree, but during those

college years, because I began to
be introduced into Christian music,

I also was introduced to guitar and
started playing guitar, which was

not good for the first several years.

It was very bad.

Actually, I had, uh, I had zero.

natural music ability.

I, I have told people,
and that is very true.

Uh, you know, no rhythm, no timing.

I didn't, I didn't understand what music
was about, why music was what it was.

I knew nothing about it.

All I could do was sing loudly.

Uh, not always good.

It was just loud.

And so, but God, God used that to, that,
that was really the first time that

I was kind of on staff of a church.

It was a small church in, in my
hometown when I was in college.

That, uh, just friend of a
friend got, got me introduced to.

And so I started leading.

music at a church and that ended up
getting me connected with another

church because somebody, somebody
I was in a band with got connected

to a church in Simpsonville, South
Carolina, outside of Greenville, where

I was the worship leader a little bit.

Kind of, it was a step forward
in a sense, as far as the career

of, uh, pastoral ministry.

But I was leading worship there, and then
that got me connected to some people.

And anyways, it was, you know, kind of
long road from there of multiple different

positions and different churches that,
uh, God arranged my life to go into.

So I've seen you play your guitar and
sing and lead worship, and it seems

like, uh, you're anointed for that.

I don't know, you say you don't,
you didn't have natural talent,

you must have supernatural talent.

So what is that like
for you, playing music?

Yeah, so, um, what I would, what I
would describe that as now, I didn't

know the words really at the time,
so I would describe music for me as a

spiritual gift, meaning it was a gift
given to me after my salvation that,

uh, that I needed it for a season.

But there was a ministry that needed to
be led and I happened to be available.

And so God gave me the gift of
music and then, uh, and had been

developing in me gifts of leadership.

And so I had that aspect
already going, but God gave me

the gift of music and, and it.

And I, I, I say that also that it was
a gift from God because when I was

first put into a position of leading
music, again, simply because I could

sing loudly, that was the only reason.

And I was told that later on, uh,
well, you could, you know, cause it

was a small church and they said,
well, if you're going to be here.

Might as well be up front because
we're going to hear you anyways.

And, uh, and so I started to sing and
then somebody said, Oh, you play guitar.

It was like, well, I own a guitar,
but wouldn't say I really play.

So I started to get into it,
but realized I was so far.

Uh, all this was so far above my head and
I was, I had no clue what I was doing.

And so I tried to get into it and I
tried to try to learn some things, but it

really wasn't clicking very well for me.

Um, but I remember I was driving down
the road, or riding down the road, I

wasn't driving, I was with somebody,
and God just gave me an understanding

about music that I didn't have.

And he, uh, I like to say he didn't
give me All understandings about music.

He just gave me enough.

And so I remember I couldn't wait
until I got back home to my guitar

to try out what just came to me.

And, um, and it, things
just started to click.

It made sense.

And so I began to really what, what God
gave me was it's called music theory,

but just kind of the fundamentals of
music, why it works in the way that it

does and why certain things go together.

And so.

That allowed me to start playing guitar,
to lead a band, to lead the congregation

in worship and, uh, that gave me a little
bit more of a desire to learn music

and, and learn songs and what songs to
learn, which is what then later on, I

discovered things like harmonies and,
uh, but it, but it really came from

that, that day I was riding down the road
and realizing I was I was way too far.

I just didn't know what I was doing.

And God gave me that.

Wow, that's, that's a powerful
example of how God will equip the

available, the willing and available.

Absolutely.

So, Robert, you've been a Christian
for a long time, ever since you

were about 11 or 12 years old.

You've been involved
in several ministries.

You have a family.

You've had to deal with a lot of things.

Life along the way.

Are there any challenges or setbacks
that you'd like to share or anything

that the Lord has taught you?

Yeah, you know because I got to see
the Dramatic change in my parents life

as a kid because when I got saved in
fifth grade there were I don't have

this long list of sins and life choices
and Divorces, you know, whatever drug

addictions That I can look back and say,
well, man, look what God saved me from.

Mm-Hmm.

You know, I was, uh, I know that I lied.

I know that I sold, um, at
that point, not even sure if I

lusted, you know, fifth grade.

I, I, I don't think I was, I wasn't quite
there yet, that that would come later.

Um, but because my, my own salvation
story wasn't quite as dramatic, which, you

know, of course it was, it was a miracle.

God saved me from hell and took
what was dead and made it alive.

But, but I did get to see that in my
parents a lot more, and I get to see

that in a few other people as well.

And then also, the church, the
church I was in was very small.

Uh, I mean this in the, maybe, maybe the
most appropriate way, very narrow minded.

Uh, I know that phrase could probably be
used to, uh, used in a, in a wrong sense.

But, um, their understanding,
and my understanding at the time,

of Christianity was very small.

You know, almost to the point that if
you weren't part of our church or part

of our tribe, you probably weren't
going to heaven if you didn't do the

things we do, think how we think.

And so I, um, I, when I got to
college, I began to discover a world of

Christianity that I didn't know existed.

I discovered denominations of people
that love Jesus more than I did, but

they weren't the same denomination.

I discovered that there were other
Bible translations or Bible versions.

And people read them and preach
from them and led people to Jesus.

And it wasn't the same as what I used
and what I was taught was always right.

And then I began to discover that some of
these preachers that I had listened to may

not have really been preaching scripture.

That may have been more
preaching their opinion.

And in some of them, uh,
their opinions were wrong.

And, and even some of their
lifestyles were wrong.

And, you know, there was, I
didn't experience any abuse

myself, but come to find out.

There were people around me that had
been abused, either spiritual abuse

or even physical abuse, sexual abuse,
that that was, that was the world

that that was all around that I just
didn't know, uh, I didn't know existed.

And so my, I would say my freshman
year of college, I was just hit in

the face with, with all of these,
with reality, with reality of, uh,

sin that I didn't know existed with.

With the reality of, you know,
there's this thing called pornography

that I didn't really know existed.

Um, that was, you know, that time internet
was in full swing and people had cell

phones and, uh, you know, and computers.

And, and so, you know, I'm beginning
to discover this, there's all this

temptation at my fingertips, the
Christianity that I thought was.

Black and white, hard and fast, uh,
isn't quite like that, that there are

Christians all across the world that
believe slightly differently about certain

doctrines than I did, that, uh, that
they seem to be right and I was wrong.

And then these preachers that I
had really thought were, you know,

God's messengers for the people,
God's prophets for the people.

They wouldn't have called
themselves prophets, of course,

but, but that's how I saw them.

Um, you know, maybe, maybe
they weren't even right.

Maybe some of them weren't even
Christians, you know, it's just

so I was really blindsided by
that wasn't prepared for that.

And, uh, and then it began to, um,
build relationships with, uh, other

people that some that love Jesus,
some that didn't love Jesus and, you

know, starting to have girlfriends.

And, and so, like I said, my
freshman year was, was I just got

blindsided with a lot of things.

Um, and then I also began to realize my
relationship with my dad wasn't very good.

I didn't really know that before.

He was the only dad I ever had, you know.

I thought it was normal.

So I began to realize that.

Um, and so God in his grace kept me
from straying too far during that time.

And I'm very thankful for that,
uh, considering all those things.

that, uh, that I was blindsided with.

And so, and part of the reason why God
kept me from straying too far was, I

was just in a really good environment.

The school I was in was a
really good environment.

And, and the, some of the people
that God sent into my life

were just wonderful people.

And, um, and then of course, that
I, I began to freshman, sophomore

year, junior year, really start to
find a love for God's word, which

I'll get back to that in a second.

But, um, and God gave me wisdom
about some things that certainly

didn't come from myself.

And so I began to realize Yeah, maybe
there were a bunch of preachers that

preached their own opinions that,
that may not have been doing the

right thing, living the right way.

Maybe even some of them were, were
racist or, or abusive or whatever.

But you know, God works in spite of
all of us that it wasn't just them.

And, and the, the preacher that
preached when I got saved, he was,

he's a fallen, broken person, just
like I was, or just like I am.

And he's just as much of a hypocrite as I
would be later on in life too, you know?

So, so that was helpful that I came
to that realization or God gave me

that realization that God works in
spite of all of us anyways, um, I

also began to realize very quickly
that my relationship with my dad.

Maybe it wasn't ideal, but
you know, he had a lot of

brokenness in his own childhood.

And, and his dad was pretty distant.

His mom was not the best mom.

And so, you know, his, I, I was.

Hoping for this picture perfect
relationship that, that he

wasn't equipped to have himself.

And so that was helpful.

You know, I realized that.

And, um, so that, so God really
met a lot of those things.

I was blindsided with God was right
there with a person or with a, with a

scripture or with an understanding and
some wisdom that filled in the gaps.

And that was, that was very helpful.

And, uh, then when I, I guess I.

It's kind of funny when, when I was
a sophomore, that's probably the time

that sophomore, junior year was probably
the time that I started to stray the

most, even though I was blindsided with
all those things as a freshman year,

right in my freshman year of college.

Um, I maybe I had enough foundation
or, or enough good people around me

that, that I was able to just keep.

Keep walking right through it.

But then I think it was
maybe my junior year.

Um, I started to get, uh, I,
I, I probably dated more than

I ever had previous to that.

And again, it's kind of funny.

I think maybe when you're
an upperclassman, girls

pay attention to you more.

So I started to get attention from
some girls and, um, and so that,

you know, kind of fed my ego.

And, and so probably around
those years I started to stray

the most and it really wasn't.

I didn't jump off the cliff of, you
know, any kind of spiritual cliff.

I just really started to get apathetic
of, uh, of my spiritual walk and

my faith and my Bible reading.

And then I appreciated other
people's attention, especially

girls a little bit too much.

And so I, I remember one girl in
particular that I'd started dating.

I mean, she just.

She, she talked me up, you know, laughed
at my jokes and, uh, just thought I was

great, or at least she said she thought
I was, you know, just the next best thing

since sliced bread and, and that got
to me and that, you know, fed my pride.

And so I just let my Christianity
really take a backseat and it

was a short amount of time.

I would say it was probably four
or six months, but during that

time, um, because because my
faith took a backseat because my.

Um, I just started putting way too much
thoughts and time into this relationship

with a girl who claimed to be a
Christian, but certainly wasn't living

that, wasn't living a Christian life.

And it got to the point where I
started to, I started to think, man,

if I stay with this girl, I'm, my
life is going to be much different.

I'm not going to, like, I'm
not going to become a pastor.

If, if I have a relationship
with this girl, it's, we're not

going to live a Christian life.

And, and, And that relationship
was really, it was, I wouldn't say

it was destructive, but for me, it
was not headed in a good direction.

And, and I remember it was Christmas
morning when I was 20 years old.

So again, I would, I think I would've
been a junior in college, um, Christmas

morning, you know, Christmas break, I'm,
um, I'm home and I see, I wake up in the

morning and I see some spots on my face.

And my tongue, I was brushing my teeth.

I see these spots on my tongue.

I'm like, what, what is, what is this?

And so, and so then I started
looking at spots all over my body.

Purple spots, what, uh, come to
find out what called purpura, you

know, blood coming to the surface.

And so I went and showed
my dad and, uh, he.

He got a little paranoid, of course.

And so we went to the emergency
room and I sat in the emergency

room for an hour, Christmas morning.

And then I ended up being
taken to the hospital.

They're running all these tests
and no idea what's going on.

You know, they see that
there's, there's an issue.

And so they, they come up with this
word idiopathic, which means we don't

know what's going on, but it's an issue.

And so, um, so the diagnosis
that eventually is ITP.

idiopathic thrombocytopenic purpura, which
means we don't know why, but you have

a, you have some kind of blood issue.

And so I think I was maybe after about
day five of being in the hospital,

all these tests, nobody has a clue.

Um, and they're putting me on
antibiotics or maybe it was

antibiotics, but put me on steroids.

I remember.

And, but during that time, I
would say I felt God's love.

I felt his, I felt his love
more than ever in my life.

because I recognized what was
happening was, uh, God chastising me.

He was, he was disciplining me, um,
for the, for the life that I was living

and the direction I was headed on.

And so, you know, like I said,
I really saw that as God's like,

God loved me so much that he was
willing to step in and stop me and

give me an opportunity to repent.

And, uh, so I did.

And, um, And there was some real other
realizations I came to at that time.

It was really helpful.

One of those in particular,
which is kind of funny.

Was somebody had given me a new
living translation of the Bible.

And, uh, and again, the church I grew up
in had a very narrow mind about things.

And we were only allowed to
use the King James Bible.

Uh, and that was the, that was the only
one that, you know, if it was good enough

for John the Baptist, it was good enough
for us and you know, that kind of thing.

And, uh, and so I was, but I had a new
living translation and because what God

was doing in my heart at that time, I
mean, and I had nothing else to do because

I was in a hospital room by myself.

I had visitors, um, you know, here and
there, and we spent Christmas morning in

the hospital, so we did gift exchange in
the hospital, um, and then my birthday

was, was four days, it's four days
after Christmas, and, uh, so I spent

my birthday in there as well, and, um,
but I started reading the Bible, and

it was just this little tiny New Living
Translation of the Bible, and I started

reading it for the first time in my life.

I enjoyed reading the Bible, and I
found myself not wanting to put it down.

And I was reading the Old Testament, too.

So I was just reading these stories,
and I was like, Man, I've just

never seen the Bible like this.

I've never read it like this.

Again, it was also because of
what God was doing in my life.

But, but, I mean, I know it
sounds horrible, but I just didn't

enjoy reading the King James.

You know, the, the, the style
that it was written in, and

the language that's being used.

I understood it, for the most
part, but I just didn't enjoy it.

And so I found myself
enjoying reading the Bible.

And that was really a pivotal time for
me because I realized that that God

is for me, that he's a personal God
and that he gave me his word, not as a

list of rules to keep me from living my
life, but as, uh, as instructions and

really as a love letter to me, to lead
me to life, not, not to keep me from

living life, but really to live life.

And, and I never really
realized it like that before.

And, uh, And that was really helpful.

And also at the time, the pastor
of the church I grew up in came to

visit me and he was very judgmental.

Um, and, and was saying
something about God's doing this

because of sin in your life.

And although he was right,
it, the way he presented it.

Really caused me kind of to turn
to turn off a little bit from

from that style of Christianity.

Meanwhile, this pastor of another
church that I was I was already at.

It was actually a Wesleyan church, a
church that I was leading worship in

the first church I led worship in.

He came to visit me and he
gave me this other side of God.

And he was talking about God's
love and he was talking about

God's grace and God's healing.

And so, you know, it's almost like, uh.

I had had the choice of, of which
meal to eat, which tree to eat from,

you know, uh, and tree of life or
tree of knowledge of good and evil.

I was quite like that, but, but
it seemed like that at the time.

And I'm like, man, I'm,
I'm going that direction.

I'm going, I'm going with life and
grace and love and forgiveness.

And, um, and that, that was really cool
that I was able to, to see, and it's funny

too because it was almost like darkness
and light, you know, because the preacher

that came was wearing a black suit, but
the preacher that the, the other preacher

that came, um, was wearing like a white
polo or something or a light colored polo.

So it was, you know, you could
write a story about it, write

a poem about it, but, um.

But like I said, God really used
that, that moment in my life

to, to bring me back on track.

And, uh, that was really helpful.

And I learned a lot of things.

A lot of things changed really
in that short season of my life.

And, uh, I'm very thankful for that.

Yeah.

Thank you.

That's wonderful.

I love that story.

And I liked what you said about the NLT
because I grew up with the King James too.

And somewhere along the way I
graduated to a new King James,

but, and that was like my.

Go to Bible for most of my life and
when the NLT came out in the 90s

It was you know, kind of kind of
weird, you know Getting used to it.

I didn't really didn't use it very much
until the past few years Thank God and

now I got kind of go back between the
back and forth between the New King

James You know just because I'm familiar
with the language, you know, I'm kind of

emotionally or psychologically attached to
the to the wording of the New King James,

but the NLT has been really enlightening,
I think, and it's fun to compare them.

So that experience in the hospital
where you got the preacher in the

black suit and the preacher in the
white polo, such a stark contrast,

that's a really great story.

Any other things like that that
have happened along the way

that helped you understand God?

Yeah.

Yeah, I'd say there's been
a ton of little things.

The whole opportunity that we had moving
to Virginia, planning a church, being

part of a church, things learned so much.

Um, and then planting a church
that, that wasn't my choice.

Um, that, that was just very clearly
something that God was leading us to do.

Wasn't even something I was interested
in or even, even thought that

we should be doing, uh, the idea
of planting a church in my mind.

There was enough church plants already
or enough churches already, but

come to find out there's really not.

Um, and we're kind of working
in the negative because.

There's a lot of churches that
are declining or have declined or

have died, closed, you know, being
sold to a chiropractor or, you

know, for an office or whatever.

There's, uh, and so we,
we need more churches.

And, and so that, that, uh, you
know, there wasn't a traumatic

experience planning a church.

It was a great experience,
but it taught me a lot.

And, um, And, and I've met a lot of people
through it and, and learned a lot about

processes and systems and structures.

That's been really helpful for me,
even now, as a pastor, um, my wife

and I had had two miscarriages a
couple of years ago, and that was,

uh, several, several events or several
factors involved in that whole story.

Yeah, that, that showed me God's
love and God's care, um, and some

people that were in our life.

And so, like I said, I think there's
probably a lot of little things that, um,

that have been really helpful, you know,
and, and there's things along the way

that maybe as I, as I got into adulthood,
especially into my thirties, And I began

to discover about human nature, discover
about, um, you know, sin in the world,

like the reality of the world that we live
in, that some people just straight lie.

Uh, you know, I had to learn
that kind of the hard way that

not everybody tells the truth.

Um, and, and there's, uh, and some
people even, they believe the lies

that they're, that they're saying.

They don't even know they're
lying, they believe it.

And, uh, yeah, so there's probably just
a whole long list of little things.

Can't really think of anything
else major at this moment.

What advice would you have for
somebody out there listening,

whether they're already a Christian,
anybody, any human being on the face

of the planet, what kind of wisdom
would you have to pass on to them?

Well, there's probably a list
of 20 things I could say.

One thing is, it is very healthy
to recognize that not only am I not

perfect, neither is anybody else.

My parents, whether they did the
best they could, they were far from

perfect, and neither were their parents.

And so all of us are starting
off very imperfect and really

starting in the negative.

Our only hope of getting through this
life in a healthy way and living an

abundant life like scripture says we
can, our only hope is through Christ.

And the things that he's
already set up for us.

So, being part of a healthy church,
reading scripture daily, praying to

God, uh, putting in healthy spiritual
disciplines, even fasting, meditating,

walking, praying, um, those are the things
that God's set up for us in scripture.

And the only reason I know those
things is from reading scripture.

And the only reason any of us would know
any of them is from reading scripture.

And, and so, yeah, recognizing
that none of us are perfect, And

then the second thing I'll say is
because none of us are perfect.

I, I, who have been given a
immeasurable riches of grace, also

have a responsibility to give others an
immeasurable amount of grace to forgive

them over and over for the same thing.

Uh, whether or not I continue to put
myself in a hurtful situation is, it's not

what I'm saying, but forgiving and giving
grace to others is what I'm called to do.

And it's.

It's amazing to me how easy it
is for me and all of us to give

ourselves grace for something that
we are very critical to others about.

So if somebody cuts us off in traffic
and we're upset with them, but if we

cut somebody off in traffic, we have
an excuse why, uh, you know, we weren't

paying attention or the sun was in our
eyes or the kid was screaming in the

back or, but they better not cut us off.

And so, yeah, be give grace
freely and quickly and easily.

And so that's the second thing I'd say.

Third thing I would say, I guess I've
kind of already mentioned, is God has

given us his word for a reason, and he
has a life that he wants us to live.

It's not going to be a life
that's free of trouble.

It's not going to be always healthy, and
wealthy, and prosperous, and perfect.

It's going to be far from that.

In fact, depending on where we
are, And the environment that we're

in, it may be a very difficult
life, maybe a traumatic life.

We may have to deal with persecution
like some brothers and sisters in

that I know in Pakistan that I mean,
they have to every day of their life,

they have to deal with persecution.

So it may be a difficult life, but it can
still be an abundant life spiritually.

According to Ephesians one, you know,
every spiritual blessing in Christ

Jesus, but we can only find that
through a growing healthy relationship

with Christ, which only comes
through spending time in his word.

It does not come through following my
religious traditions or my own thoughts

or feelings, especially not my feelings.

My feelings.

Will lie to me every day.

Um, I might feel depressed and simply,
uh, come to find out it's cold outside

or I'm hungry, or I didn't sleep well
enough or feelings are the, are the

biggest liars, so maybe that's the next,
next piece of advice I'd give is don't

follow your feelings, follow truth and
your feelings will follow eventually.

But follow truth.

Yeah.

And, and then if somebody is
a, uh, is a Christian, and they

are growing in their faith.

Then I would say my advice for them
would be find somebody to learn from,

find somebody that's, that's in front
of you to learn from, find somebody

that is along the same lines as you
to, to live life with or learn with.

Uh, and then find somebody that's behind
you spiritually for you to disciple.

Each of those, each of those directions
forward with, and then behind

having those in our life, people
in our life that, that fit each of

those categories will help us grow.

Uh, you know, off the charts, especially
having somebody behind me that I'm

mentoring or that I'm teaching or
that I'm leading in a small group or

I'm meeting for coffee, just having
that person looking up to me as an

example is going to be very helpful.

And then if somebody is interested
in, um, in being a leader,

there's, uh, that's something I've
probably spent most of my ministry.

learning about and then
even training others.

And I'd love to talk to somebody about,
about how they can develop as a leader.

Um, and that's kind of one of my dreams
in life is to be in a position where

I'm doing that a lot more than I am
right now, just developing, either

developing other leaders or helping
churches develop leaders in their church.

Uh, and so find opportunities
to lead, be faithful with

what you have, where you are.

With the people you, you're with, and then
just allow God to bless you with more.

Allow God to give you an increase,
uh, from there, if that's His will.

Um, and if somebody's interested in
planting a church, man, we need them.

So, talk, talk to somebody about doing it.

All right.

Man, that was great.

I'm sure we all needed to hear that.

Uh, so, uh, anything else you want to add?

And if, uh, if so, feel free.

If not, I'd like for you
to pray for the listeners.

There's somebody that might be listening
to this in the year 2037, and they're lost

and wondering what to do, and they stumble
across this podcast, and they hear you.

Who knows who's going to ever hear
this, and how God's going to use

it, but would you pray for our
listeners before we wrap things up?

Yeah, sure.

Yeah.

All right.

Well, Father, thank you for an opportunity
to talk about your goodness and just to

share testimony of how you work in our
life, uh, and how you're a very present

help that you're not a God who just, uh,
sets things in motion and then walks away

or even saves us and then walks away.

Lord, you're with us
every step of the way.

We're very grateful for that.

Thank you also that you love us so much.

That even when we sin or when our lives
are headed in a wrong direction, falling

into temptation, that you are there to
discipline us and chastise us just like

a loving father should do and will do.

And so we're grateful.

I pray that we, um, that we will
learn to listen to your Holy Spirit

more and more, and that we will
learn to love your word that's been

written out for us more and more.

And through those things, as we
read your word, as we listen to

your Holy Spirit, Lord, we know that
you're going to guide us to truth.

We know that you are going to lead
us to good things, to spiritual

health, to leading others.

Uh, we know that you're going to lead us
to an abundant life that is, uh, that is

really the kind of life we're meant for.

And thank you for Jesus.

Thank you that he died on the cross
for our sins and rose again to give

us life and that we can be saved and
we can have a home with you one day.

We love you in Jesus name.

Amen.

Thank you, Robert.

Thank you so much for
taking the time to do this.

I know it's going to be a blessing.

It already is a blessing to me.

Absolutely.

Well, thank you, Jesse.

We hope you've been
blessed by today's story.

In case you haven't noticed, there
are no advertisements on this podcast

and we hope to keep it that way.

So if you've heard something that you
think could help someone you know, please

share it using the link in the show notes.

Also, if you will give Faith and Purpose a
positive review on your podcast platform,

you could help more people find it.

You will probably never know how
that small effort can make a big

difference in someone's life.

But our Heavenly Father knows.

Speaking of sharing, if you know a Jesus
follower with a story to tell, please send

them a link to Faith and Purpose Podcast.

It may encourage them to tell their story.

That person may even be you.

Our only criteria is
that Jesus be glorified.

Most Christians don't share their
faith because they mistakenly think

their story is not interesting enough.

Or that it's self centered
to talk about themselves.

Or that they are not competent
to explain the gospel correctly.

But none of that is relevant.

If Jesus has changed your
life, you have a story to tell.

All of our stories are completely unique.

No one has a story like yours, and you
may be the only one who can reach someone

else through telling your experience.

So don't be intimidated.

A story is just that, a true
account of your own experience.

And no one can disagree
with your experience.

When we tell what Jesus has done in
our lives, we are being obedient to his

command to go into all the world and
preach the gospel to every creature.

It's not about theology, and it's not
about how interesting or special you are.

It's all about Jesus.

So when you're ready to tell how Jesus
has impacted your life, you can let Jesse

know at his ministry website, jesseduke.

net.

There you can download guidelines
that will make it easy to

prepare to tell your story.

Thank you for listening today and Shalom.