Kingsley Okpo
Speaker 2: Welcome everyone
to Faith and Purpose Podcast.
Each episode of this podcast contains the
personal testimony of an ordinary person
transformed by an extraordinary God.
My name is Kaylin, and I'm
here to introduce this podcast
for my friend Jesse Duke.
Jesse is a husband, father, author,
life recovery guide, lay counselor,
and small group leader, but his
most important role is disciple.
As a disciple of Jesus, Jesse
created this podcast to help other
believers tell their faith stories.
We'll be hearing the personal
testimonies of all sorts of people
who have one thing in common:
Jesus has transformed their lives.
Jesus used parables because He created
us to learn best through story, and
as we listen to how God has worked in
others' lives, we find encouragement
and inspiration for our own faith walk.
Whether you are already a believer or
just a curious seeker, we believe that
as you listen to these stories, you will
be encouraged on your own faith journey.
We are sure that God can speak to you
through one of these episodes, and that
you will see that our Heavenly Father
truly works all things together for our
good when we simply love and trust Him.
If you are currently going through a
trial, we believe that you will come
to see that your troubles, heartbreaks,
and failures are not gravestones, but
stepping stones into new life in Christ.
Here's Jesse with today's guest.
hey, this is Jesse Duke.
Before we hear from our guest today,
I just wanted to say that this
episode is my first international
interview, and it came to us all
the way from Nigeria by way of Zoom.
Unfortunately, the sound quality
is not where I'd like it to be, so
there are a few places where our
voices don't come through clearly.
But I hope you'll listen through
those glitches because this brother
in Christ really needs to be heard.
also, please hang in there after
this conversation so I can add some
information that will make some
things clear that we talk about.
if you're aware of what's going on
in Nigeria with all the persecution
of Christians over there, I think
you'll enjoy this interview.
Thank you.
Welcome to Faith and Purpose Podcast.
Today, I'm very excited to have
my friend Kingsley Okpo from
Lagos, Nigeria, to tell his story.
I'm really looking forward to it, Pastor
Kingsley, and I just want you to start
by telling people about your life and,
where the Lord has led you, how you
got there, and what kind of blessings
He's bestowed upon you along the way.
Kingsley: Okay.
Thank you.
It's my pleasure to be with you, and
really a privilege to be on your podcast.
I am so excited that, After so many
years, we are going to do this.
I didn't know it would come to this
when we met at Columbia, North Carolina
some years back during a ch- a program.
We attended together a seminar.
it was a great one, and I treasure
that, that day, that moment, and
all the time we have spent together
talking as brothers in the Lord.
You have been a blessing to me, been
a blessing to my family, and then now
you are a blessing, greater blessing
to the church and the kingdom of God.
And I say God will bless you
and your beautiful wife, Becky.
I can't forget those words she spoke
to my ears that day we met, and the
excitement that, I got when you took
me out, for a dinner- that night.
It has been a very lovely
relationship, and I really
appreciate it, deeply appreciate it.
And I pray that the Lord
will bless you and keep you.
Continue the good work you are doing.
Okay.
I know the night we went out the
first time, we talked about all of
the, all of this, but, you don't get
tired of, speaking about your story,
especially if it has to do with how
the Lord saved you and called you and
using you to be part of, what He's
doing for His church and His kingdom.
It's a great privilege.
Paul was speaking and said that, it is not
the wise, not the noble that was called,
but very significant people like us.
Nobody knew that we're gonna be part of
God's work and that God will call us to
be part of what He's doing in the life of,
people and the life of, sinners and, the
salvation of souls and the kingdom of God.
I grew up in a little town called
Abiriba in Arochukwu Local Government.
It's in Abia State, Nigeria.
Southeast Nigeria.
Jesse: Okay.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
And we're, we-- I don't know.
I don't have to, I don't know
how to put it, but I thank
God for my parents, my mother.
My mother is still alive,
but my dad is late now.
Growing up was not an easy thing.
It was not a bed of roses, but we--
they tried their very best to give us
the best they can for us because they
were peasant farmers and, uneducated
people, so they may not know so
much about the value of education.
But they tried their best to raise us
In their ability that they can, and
then, a lot of financial constraints.
And, this part of the world, our
parents like to have many children.
so having many children
has its, its, blessings.
It also has its, disadvantage 'cause
you have to care for as many people
as possible, and everybody has to be
loved equally and treated equally.
It's not like what you have in
the US where you can have one or
choose to have two and all of that.
But here, we are many.
Like, my mom had eight of us, So,
you know, taking care of eight
children is not as easy, especially
when you do not have money.
So then I went to primary school, and from
there I went to a secondary school and
did the school certificate examination and
passed, but couldn't go to, university.
So I took to doing
business, personal business.
It was a struggle.
when I tell my children and tell people
that I talk to as pastor, that actually
education is the first, a right process
if you want to get established in life
'cause it gives you the paths to, to
go growing, making progress in life.
And if you miss that, you will
struggle in some other ways.
You either go and learn trade,
or you go and learn skills, and
that is what is obtainable here.
Or some of the privileges and
advantages you have over there,
we don't have them in Nigeria.
So you try to live and survive by what
you can do by yourself or for yourself.
Jesse: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Especially if, especially
if you have nobody to provide
finances for you to run your dreams.
So you have to chase this your- yourself.
So it wasn't an easy task for me,
especially as the second born and the
first son that have younger ones too.
So some of us have to pay price for
the family, sacrifice whatever you
need to sacrifice to allow your younger
ones also to, enjoy the benefit of
even gaining secondary education.
And we thank God that happened.
And, it has to be from doing
one, one, menial job to the other
until one became, established
doing my own personal business.
And through that small personal
business, the Lord helped me to
train five of my younger ones, four
of them up to university level.
Because I know how important
that could be for my family.
I did that and, by the grace of God
today, they are doing very well.
Some of them are doing better
than me because they had
the privilege I didn't have.
But I'm very happy that, through me, a
lot of struggles was broken in the family.
So I've been somebody who lived
making sacrifices, and I'm happy
because I think the Lord raised me
for such purpose for the family.
Jesse: I'm impressed.
So before, you get any
further, let me ask you this.
How did you learn to speak English?
Speaker 3: Honestly, I will tell you,
the time we went to school, it was a
time that you were faced with teachers
and, who insist that you study.
You give yourself to study.
Jesse: Yeah.
Speaker 3: And hard work.
You give yourself to study, and, that
has to do with a lot of hard work.
Jesse: were you required to
s- to learn English in school?
Speaker 3: Yes.
Yes.
English was a subject we learn in school.
English is not our local language.
Jesse: What's the name
of your local language?
Speaker 3: Igbo.
Jesse: Igbo.
Speaker 3: Yes.
Our native language, yes.
But we're taught in English
in secondary school.
Jesse: Okay.
I'm sorry to interrupt you or g-go ahead.
Speaker 3: No, it's okay.
It's okay.
Yeah, so I learned, speaking
English, through studies and giving
myself to personal development.
I study a lot.
I read a lot.
I wish I could show you my
bookshelves and all of that.
And, I learned to study.
I read wide.
I read varieties of books.
I read, a lot of people, a lot of authors.
And when I speak, people wonder, maybe
what level of education I acquired.
But, when I tell them my, my-- the
little I did, sometime they don't believe
it, but that's-- it is what it is.
I wish I could do-- I could
have gone higher than I did.
I still desire to do that, but I
know the burden of ministry may
not allow me, but I'm trying.
I'm still doing my best.
Jesse: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
So after many years, I came to Lagos
'cause my business brought me to Lagos.
And, it was there in Lagos, that
I began to attend a church, where
the Word of God is, being taught.
Because right there in my
wife were in the village.
I was younger then, and, they
were attending a church that, the
Word of God is not being taught.
And, you may know that you better
have-- you have less interest.
Okay.
So and when I came, the church I'm
pastoring now was where I got born again.
And I thank God that I went to that
church 'cause I had the true Word of
God that changed me, that transformed
me, that regenerated me, that opened
my eyes to see that, I'm actually,
living of the will and will of God.
So I can remember how it happened and the
scriptures was preached, Galatians chapter
3, and that brought me into the Kingdom
of God, and I received my salvation.
What kind of- And that was in 2006.
Jesse: 2006.
And what kind of church was it?
Speaker 3: It's an
Assemblies of God church.
Jesse: Beautiful.
They're Spirit-filled
Yes.
Speaker 3: Yes, Spirit-filled church.
Yes.
Assembly of God Church is the foremost,
Pentecostal church in Nigeria.
Most of the other churches that
you have today sprang up from
Assemblies of God, including
their GOs, the general overseers.
Yes, because it's a church that is
rooted in the Word of God, church
that is rooted in the Holy Spirit,
in the power of the Holy Spirit.
And, that's what has kept me
in that church till today.
Jesse: Yes.
' Speaker 3: Cause I remember when
I got born again, I never thought
ever that, it will lead me to
becoming a pastor, a minister.
There was no such, person in my family.
We didn't have that background
or nobody like that.
We are people wh- who
worship idol in the family.
So I think the Lord wanted to raise
me or raise me up for-- to bring the
light of the Gospel to our family.
Jesse: Mm.
Speaker 3: So when I got born again,
I've-- I, I was excited, and I
began to pray that God will lead
me to do somethings better than
I was doing in terms of business.
And the Lord actually showed me something
that I never learnt and never knew about.
And I think the Lord wanted to show
me that, yes, this is, He's able to
give you the power to make wealth.
And after I enjoyed that for, two, three
years-- In fact, two years, the third
year, the burden to go to Bible school
because I had series of revelations.
And it's all just now that I'm
beginning to understand the calling
of the Lord because I heard God.
I have read books, and I've read where
people, s- big pastors in the ministry
say that they-- since they started
pastoring, they have not heard the
voice of God speak to them one-on-one.
But I'm one such person that is privileged
to have heard the word-- the voice of
God speak to me directly, audible voice.
That I've seen the similitude
of God appear in heaven and God
speaking to me and giving me
direct instructions on what to do.
And so I don't take
those time for granted.
In fact, when I told my wife that
I was going to Bible school, and
a lot of people around me, they
thought I was, mad, you know.
I was-- What is wrong with me?
That I left the world, left the business
world, abandoned everything- Now I have a
very big business because my company was
servicing banks, big banks in Nigeria.
I was delivering services to some banks in
Nigeria and that was very good business.
In fact, it was out of that business that
the Lord helped my wife and I to raise
about 11 million naira to plant this
church that we are pastoring now in 2014.
So I went to Bible school and, had to
submit myself and humble myself to learn
because when people was saying that,
it's possible that if God called you,
you can just go and start a church.
You can just go and start, a ministry.
And I said, that's not the
kind of ministry I want to do.
I want to learn, understand
what ministry is all about.
And the first three years was
too much for me to do that.
But I had to go to Bible school
and it was not an easy thing.
In fact, during that period that I
went to Bible school, my wife and my
children were thrown out of the house
because we couldn't pay our house rent.
They didn't have a place to stay.
Jesse: Mm.
Speaker 3: And I was
still in Bible school.
If you ask my wife, she'll say that
I wasn't even interested in any other
thing apart from what I was doing.
So I was telling her, that's
our own wilderness experience.
There's something God wants to do with us.
And so let's allow God to break
down our own foundation and build
his own foundation that can stand.
And that was what happened.
So when I came back from Bible
school after three years, 2012,
I started doing my business too.
The business was doing very well and it
was not easy to plant a church for me.
Yeah, it's unfortunate.
Honestly, it's a bit unfortunate I have to
say this, but that's true that, we in the
church, we pray that the Lord will raise,
workers for the ministry, for the kingdom.
those who go and harvest
the field that is ripe.
And when God has answered the prayer
by raising somebody, we will find
it difficult- To absorb the person,
find it difficult to assist the
person even to fulfill his calling.
And people think that they are only
coming to disturb what they are doing,
disturb them from what they are doing.
But I thank God that the vision
was clear for my wife and myself.
And so we decided to, to pay
that price not to disturb anyone
or to use our personal funds
to, to start a local church.
Jesse: So did you have any
support from the church you
were, attending at the time?
Speaker 3: There was no support.
Jesse: So you and your wife just
decided you weren't gonna ask for money,
you were just gonna trust God and to
send the people and the resources.
Is that what you're saying?
Speaker 3: Absolutely, 100%.
Jesse: Okay.
Speaker 3: Because even then, the pastor
that was supposed to be my mother church
pastor, as we call it here, the parlance
we use here, was not ready to see us.
Don't want us around.
There was no support, nothing.
Jesse: Okay.
Speaker 3: So-- And we saw it
clearly, and, we decided that, we'll
trust God to provide the funds.
In fact, the money I was talking about
that we used to start our church,
we-- When the mon- when we had the
money, because of what my family went
through, w- my wife and I decided
we're going to build our own house.
So we actually went out
and saw a land to buy.
And then just few days later, a house
agent called me that he had found a place
that is suitable for us to start a church.
So I now called my wife and said,
"We have to change our mind,
and let's start the church."
I don't know how she felt right
inside her, but she gave her consent.
And so we went and, and saw the place.
I paid for that particular, apartment,
and then I came to US the next week.
I remember that was in 2014.
So when I came back from the US,
I was-- I attended a program that
2014 at Dallas Theological Seminary.
Jesse: Okay.
Speaker 3: Because then I was
looking for-- I was just trying to
understand ministry, learn ministry,
and how to do ministry very well.
Mm-hmm.
Jesse: In
Speaker 3: fact, that was what brought me
to the program we attended together that
we met At, at Columbia, North Carolina.
Jesse: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yes.
I attended that program.
I attended, Youth America.
I attended, another program
at, Plano at, City Church.
And I was attending prayer programs
like that, learning how to do ministry.
So when I came back, we
had to equip the church.
So we went to the market.
I did that myself and everything
where we needed to start the
church, we paid from our pocket.
There was no support.
We didn't ask for anyone because we
didn't, we didn't want to bother anybody.
As long as the Lord was providing the
funds, we wanted to use it to do His will.
Yeah.
So the church was doing
well by the grace of God.
People were coming.
I recall that the first day we went to
worship, we went to worship in that church
was myself, my wife, and my five kids.
Jesse: Okay.
Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yes.
And then we took the generator
in our house to power the church.
So when I got there, my
children were looking at God.
they were young, very small then.
So it was myself and my wife and myself.
They were looking at us.
I went and turned on the gen and then on a
speaker and, started singing and, praying
and my wife was joining me and before
you know it, we are-- I preached to them.
We took offering and I gave it to my wife
and we closed the church and we went home.
It's funny.
And so the church continued like that.
The next week somebody joined us.
Maybe in another two weeks, three person
joined us and the church started growing.
Jesse: Yeah.
Yeah.
That brings to mind, the verse,
don't despise small beginnings."
Speaker 3: The day of a little beginning.
Yes.
Jesse: That's a wonderful
Speaker 3: one.
Yes.
And you see when, when-- when, when--
Because we were on rent, it was a
rented apartment and the rent was high.
Right then we were paying 1.4
million naira, which is a lot of money.
A lot of people were asking me
why I have to spend that amount
of money to pay for a rent, Yeah.
But, I felt that we needed to
give the Lord the best place
that people can come and worship,
and people were actually coming.
So after many years, the landlord,
the owner of the property had
to increase it from two-- 1.4
to 2.9
million.
Jesse: Mm.
Speaker 3: That was astronomical.
Jesse: Yeah.
Speaker 3: And we couldn't pay
So yes, we were forced to move,
were forced to move a- another
place where we were asked to got
for 1 million naira, which was good.
So we started there,
and that was 20, 2021.
Yes.
I remember very clearly.
And so church was doing well, but because
we lost our original place we started,
members, a lot of members left the church.
They left the church because they
felt, we should be getting help now
from our denomination, as it were.
So we didn't get the help, so a
lot of people got angry and left.
Jesse: Mm.
Speaker 3: But thank God, as they
left, some other persons stayed
back, some other persons joined.
We continue praying and trusting God.
and where we are before we
bought our property was sold,
and we were asked to quit.
In fact, I have a video I can
send to you to see how the person
barricaded us out of the place.
Really?
We cannot-- As we talk now, our
property, our chairs, our musical
equipment, our everything about the
church is still there locked up.
Jesse: Oh.
Speaker 3: And he came because
they're Muslim, and you know what
it is, so execution is everywhere,
and we didn't want to have issues.
Just can I tell you something?
Today is the fourth day we
worship in this, our new property,
the one we are looking for money.
So it was just on Sa- on, yeah,
on Friday that, because the
place where we are worshiping
right now was locked, barricaded.
In fact, the door was changed, and
then they put a new key and locked it.
So I told my members we have to go
to where we, our new property and
go and worship there like that.
So we improvised two rooms and
joined them together, and then
we didn't use our equipment.
We have to rent chairs to put there,
and then we worship today- Wow.
That's- And we are happy with it.
Jesse: That's great.
let me just interject here to help
the listeners get a picture of this.
So you were renting some property
from a Muslim who didn't want you
to worship there, so he locked the
doors with all of your equipment, all
of your chairs, everything inside.
So you moved over to a, another property
so that You won't have to pay rent.
You'll own it.
Speaker 3: Yes.
the Lord has blessed us
with our own property.
That's where we worship today.
we bought it, two months ago.
Jesse: Okay.
All right.
Speaker 3: So I sent you the
picture on the video, but the
property is in a very bad state.
Jesse: Oh, yeah, I saw that.
It really needs
Speaker 3: some work.
Yeah, very bad state.
There's no toilets.
There's no water there.
There's no space.
There's no place for the pastor,
Everything is bad about the property.
But we thank God that it's our property.
At least we will not be paying rent.
All we need is money to put
up a structure, a befitting
structure for a church.
Jesse: Yeah.
Speaker 3: And then, put on water
borehole, toilets, convenience
and everything that will make
member, people come and worship
and feel comfortable in the church.
Yeah.
That's why we are looking for
money to redesign the property.
If we have the money we're looking for,
we'll break down the property completely
because it's, really, dilapidated.
Jesse: Yeah.
Speaker 3: It's a very,
it's in very bad shape.
The windows are falling off.
The doors are broken.
it's really vandalized.
But we're happy it's our property.
At least, we will not have the burden
of, paying rent if we're able to
redesign it and build it up again.
Yeah.
Yes.
Jesse: Well, I was thinking when, when
David-- excuse me for taking a sidetrack
here, but when David wanted to- It's okay
and he wanted to buy the threshing
floor, Yeah in Jerusalem, he did--
I don't know that he knew that
was gonna be the eventual place
that the temple would be built.
But he did know that this guy that owned
the threshing floor wanted to give it
to him because he wanted to honor David.
But David said that, "I will
not give anything to the
Lord that cost me nothing."
Speaker 3: Nothing.
Jesse: Absolutely.
So he wanted to, he, he knew that-
Give God the best ... in order to honor
God, it had to cost him something.
Speaker 3: Sure.
Jesse: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Yeah.
I tell people, honestly, right now,
Jesse, I know the Lord knows my heart-
Jesse: Yeah
Speaker 3: that if I have that
funds we are looking for to build
the Lord a house, I will not ask
anybodies to contribute a cup for me.
Jesse: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Because the
Lord knows I can do that.
I have done things, that some
people may consider to be out of
the way, but I tell them I don't
do it, to, for, to make impression.
I do it because that's the heart I
have towards the Lord that saved me.
Jesse: Right.
Speaker 3: that's who I am.
And because I tell people that if
we love the Lord and put value to
the Lord, we'll give Him our best.
Jesse: Yeah.
Speaker 3: We'll give Him our best.
David had the opportunity as king to
accept the offer that Arauna made.
He will get the land for free.
Probably get a lamb to make
sacrifice unto the Lord for free.
But the value attached to God
was what compelled him to tell
Arauna, "Listen, I cannot do this.
I have to give God something
that cost me money."
Jesse: Yeah.
Speaker 3: So he spent that money.
And if you check, all the people that
have shown such love and reverence
to the Lord, they have never gone,
without a reward, a great reward.
I can tell you for free.
Somebody like Nehemiah, if you read
the Book of Nehemiah, you will hear
when Nehemiah was telling the people,
telling the Lord, "Remember my good
de-deeds which I did in your house."
And the Lord remembered.
Jesse: Yeah.
Speaker 3: He remembered.
He was telling him, "Listen, even what I
did in your house and what I did in this
office to honor you, to reverence you."
Jesse: Yeah.
Speaker 3: He used it before the Lord.
He reminded the Lord, and look
at what I did to honor you.
Someone like Hezekiah, when he was told
he was going to die, the prophet went
to him and said, "The Lord said I should
tell you, put your house in order.
You are gonna die in a few days."
Hezekiah didn't argue with the
prophet, but when the prophet left,
he turned his face to the wall and
was telling the Lord, "Remember how
I did this, remember how I did this,
remember how I did this to honor you.
Remember how I did this in your name
'cause of the love I have for you."
And the Lord remembered.
Before the prophet would get home, the
Lord sent him back, "Okay, go and tell
Hezekiah you are not going to die.
I'm adding another 15 years to you."
Jesse: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Because he reminded
the Lord all he did in His name
to give Him glory and honor.
Jesse: Yeah.
Speaker 3: I can go on and on.
If you read there John chapter 11 verse
one and two, when Jesus Christ came
to, raise Lazarus, John the Beloved
wrote-- He made it very clear that this
was Mary who broke a costly perfume
on the Lord that his brother was dead.
Jesse: Yeah.
Speaker 3: He remember when she broke
that spinek of perfume, there were
people there, Simon and Judas, who
were saying, "This is so expensive.
Why waste it?
We would have just sold it and put
the money and used it to give."
And the Lord said, "Don't worry.
She has done the best thing to honor Me.
And wherever this scripture
is preached, what she has done
will come up as a memorial."
We are still-- It has still-- It's
still coming up as a memorial today.
But because of what she did to the Lord,
it was something that made the Lord
to raise the brother from the dead.
Yes.
You also go to Acts chapter 10.
You will hear-
Jesse: Say that again.
Speaker 3: That- Acts chapter 10.
Okay.
Book of Acts chapter 10.
Jesse: All right.
Speaker 3: Where, Cornelius was praying.
And the Lord sent an angel to come
and tell him, "Cornelius, you don't
need to bother to pray for too long."
Who knew what he was asking the Lord?
And the Lord told him, "Listen,
your alms and your good deeds have
appeared before Me as a memorial,
and your prayers have been answered
because of what you was doing in the
name of the Lord to honor the Lord."
Jesse: he wasn't even a Jew, and
he w- he wanted to contribute to
the building of the, temple, right?
Speaker 3: So that's it, yes.
Jesse: Yeah.
Speaker 3: and you can see Mary, whose
brother died, that little act of good,
honor and reverence she did to the
Lord-... gave us something better.
The brother that she had back
alive was greater than the amount
of, of that perfume that was.
And look at Cornelius, the whole
of the family got salvation.
So each time we do a great deed for
the Lord, something we consider to be
great, He does much more for us, even
in the areas we cannot do for ourselves.
Yeah.
That's the God we serve.
He's a mystery.
And so I tell people, just look away from
what you are doing- Yeah ... for the Lord,
because He will do much more for you.
Whatever sacrifice you make to
honor Him, to reverence Him, He
will give you even a hundredfold.
That's the God we serve.
the scripture has always told
us that we should provoke
one another unto good works.
Jesse: Yeah.
Speaker 3: And then he says in
book of, Galatians that as much as
possible that we have opportunity.
Yeah.
The opportunities that we, the
Lord gives us as His people to be
a part of the work He's doing, the
work of salvation that He's doing.
Yeah.
Gives us such opportunities in our lives.
Sometime we may not see them But if
you remember that when Nehemiah was
building the broken wall of Jerusalem,
there were people that joined him.
Some built in front of their houses,
some built two blocks away, some
repaired one thing or the other.
But if you read Nehemiah, the
Book of Nehemiah very well, you
will see that he took time to
acknowledge all the work people did-
... to rebuild the wall of Jerusalem.
He was writing their names.
It was a memoria.
It was a book of memoria.
Each time that book is opened,
you will see who built what,
who did what, he, who do.
And I'm sure God has, good
commendations for all those ones.
Yeah.
And that is what it is.
Each time we join the Lord to build
His church and His kingdom, He
never leaves us without a record-
Jesse: Yeah
... Speaker 3: to our names.
Yes.
Jesse: Yeah.
when Nehemiah was building the
wall, each family had to take
care of its own section and, Yeah
and yet, even though each family was
only looking out for their own section,
by working together they re- Yeah
... rebuilt the wall in a record amount
of time be- Yeah ... because God used
their efforts to build the whole wall.
Sure.
Speaker 3: Sure.
Jesse: So I, I guess that's saying is
that if each one of us does a little bit,
each one of us does what we can- Yeah
then He honors that and multiplies it.
Speaker 3: Absolutely, yes.
It becomes easier.
Becomes easier.
Jesse: Well, you own the land.
You sent me a video of the
property, and yes- Yeah the whole
neighborhood is really in bad shape.
Yes.
But I can s- I can envision that
where the church is gonna be built
on that property is going to be the
best property in the neighborhood.
And I think- I agree with you that
will draw people- Absolutely ... to,
to the church because Yeah people
are attracted by what is good and
Speaker 3: excellent.
Jesse: What you
Speaker 3: see.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And we serve an, we serve a
God who majors in the best.
He gives us the best.
He gives us the best salvation.
Gave us His best.
His Son is His best.
He gives us grace, and grace is the best,
So everything God gives us is the best.
He say, I give you the
power to make wealth.
I give you riches without sorrows."
He gives all the best.
His thought toward you are
thought of good and not of evil.
So there's nothing wrong if we
give God the best that we can.
Remember in Malachi, He was talking
to the people through Malachi.
He was asking them, "If I'm your
governor, will you bring this, animal
that is disfigured, that has one eye
or leg broken leg, will you accept it?"
So He say, "If I'm your
father, where is my honor?"
Yeah.
So you can see that God also
deserves to be given the best.
Jesse: Yeah.
Speaker 3: When Christ
was to have the Passover-
He sent His disciples to go and get
the best place, a place that have
not been used in the upper chamber.
Jesse: And
Speaker 3: He also send them to go and get
a colt that nobody has ever used before.
Jesse: Yeah.
Speaker 3: So we should
give our God the best.
Yeah.
If we give Him our best, He's
also give us the better best,
if there's anything like that.
Jesse: Yeah.
Yeah.
Speaker 3: and let me tell you something
that I'd like you to know, Jesse.
this church that we want to
rebuild, by the grace of God if
we have the resources, just know
that it is not my personal church.
I'm just a pastor that is assigned-
Jesse: Yeah
... Speaker 3: because I
am the pioneer pastor.
I started the church myself.
Jesse: Yeah.
Speaker 3: And then we are rendering
account to our denomination every month.
Jesse: Mm-hmm.
Speaker 3: So building the church does
not mean it's my personal property.
I don't own it, and I can be asked
to leave the church tomorrow.
Jesse: Yeah.
Speaker 3: And I have nothing to lose.
I've told my members that
I have nothing to lose.
Though we planted the church with
our money, it does not belong to me.
It belongs to the Lord.
It belongs to the church.
It doesn't belong...
I don't have anything, any personal
attachment that, I started the church.
I, we, I'm trying to help to build it.
If they want me out of the
church tomorrow, I'll leave.
But as long as we are there now,
it's our responsibility to use
the grace of God that is upon our
lives to do the very best we can.
Jesse: Yeah.
Speaker 3: At least to leave a legacy
behind, something we can look back and
say, thank God that He used us to achieve
and accomplish so, so and so for His
glory and for His name and His kingdom.
Jesse: Yeah.
you're just part of
God's plan in this- Yes,
Speaker 3: yes
... Jesse: this part of the world,
Speaker 3: Yes.
' Jesse: Cause you can die tomorrow and
somebody else will step in, or- Of
Speaker 3: course.
yes ... God will send somebody.
if anything happens out, if anything
happens to me today, even if I'm sick or
incapacitated We will leave the church.
We can't continue to pastor the church
Yeah.
So some other pastor comes and then
continues the work, but I know that
the Lord will also have His records
about us and the little we have done.
Jesse: Right.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Jesse: Oh, yeah.
well, you're a good man, and I'm
really happy to, to know you.
Thank you.
And I'm happy to hear your story.
Thank you I wanna put a link to
the video that you sent showing
the property now, and then maybe
sometime in the future, when it's--
you've done all the renovations,
We can show a before and after.
That, that,
Speaker 3: that's what I'm looking forward
Jesse: to.
Me too.
Speaker 3: I was telling my members
today when we worshiped there for the
first time, and I was telling them, and
maybe four months ago, we never knew
we're gonna be in this new property now.
We never even envisaged how we
are going to buy the property.
Yeah.
And now we are here, and now you
can see how ugly the place looks
like, the property looks like.
But I want to assure them that for
the fact that God brought us here,
He's also giving us, what it takes
to change the face of this property
to something better because He said
in His word, "I will do a new thing.
Will you not see it?"
He said it will spring up.
So He'll do a new thing, and a new
building will spring up that will
be to the glory and honor of God.
I'll be proud also to put it
so that everybody will see.
That's why I sent you the video,
so you see what it looks like.
Yeah.
You remember I told you can actually
use head goggle to ch- to check
out the property where it is.
Yeah.
and then with time too, when God has
helped us through people of God who
love the Lord, who like to do, their
mission work in a foreign country and
they're not able to travel, they want
them send their money, you can be sure
that this is a mission work for you.
And when it is done, we will send
the picture so you also share it.
Maybe we'll come back and then tell
the story how the Lord helped us-
Jesse: Yeah
Speaker 3: to put up this- This structure
Jesse: I did see it on Google Maps and
I can tell that it's right in the city.
I think the Lord has given
you a spot that is gonna be,
strategic in His mission- Yes.
Yes ... to reach the-
Speaker 3: Yes.
Yes
... Jesse: people in Lagos.
Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely.
Absolutely.
Jesse: Yeah.
Speaker 3: The neighborhood is,
I like to-- I'm s- I'm so happy.
we made attempt to buy some properties
in the past, and I was telling my
members today that God actually
knows the reason why He had to
allow, delays, all the delays that
happened, and we finally came here.
Because that this is a large community.
It needs a church like this.
Yeah.
A living church, a spirit-based
church, a word-based church.
I remember I started my ministry on the
road before we even started the church.
I like street preaching.
Jesse: You like what?
Speaker 3: Street preaching.
Street preaching.
Oh,
Jesse: street preaching.
Okay.
Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yes.
And so what we'll do is, we'll
bring a megaphone, and we'll go
from street to street to preach.
Open preaching.
And so I like to do that.
And, we have a community that
we can reach out to evangelism.
We are trusting God to help us so
that when you bring them out, just
like Jesus said in Matthew 28,
You will now bring them in to
come and disciple them too.
Yeah.
That's another aspect.
Yes.
Jesse: Yeah.
I can see it.
I c- I can see it.
Speaker 3: Thank you.
Thank you.
Jesse: so back to the building itself.
one question.
Yes.
how hard is it to get
the materials you need?
Speaker 3: it's all about funds.
Jesse: Yeah.
Speaker 3: It's all about funds.
Jesse: So the
Speaker 3: materials- Right now- ... are
Jesse: there, you just need the money
Speaker 3: Yeah, just the money.
Yes.
If we have the money, we'll just
get an architect to do us something
that will accommodate a church hall.
Yeah.
We'll get a parsonage, a place for
the pastor to live so that, the
church will not have the burden
of paying rent for their pastor.
Jesse: Right.
Speaker 3: Then we do a borehole, and
then we do a good toilet for men, for-
Jesse: Wait, wait.
what's a borehole?
Speaker 3: Borehole is, water.
Oh.
Borehole water.
to sink a borehole.
Yes.
Jesse: We call it a well.
Okay
Speaker 3: A well, okay.
Yeah, we call it borehole, yeah.
Jesse: Okay.
Speaker 3: So we sink a well, sink
a borehole and provide water for the
church, and then provide water for
the community because a lot of...
most houses are buying water.
You won't believe there's no
water in that neighborhood.
Jesse: Oh, wow.
Speaker 3: So you have-
They have to go and buy
Jesse: water?
Yeah,
Speaker 3: you have to
go and buy water, yes.
So if the church sinks a borehole, it
also means that the evangelism will
attract neighbors to come and fetch
water there and be a part of the things.
Ah.
Yeah.
So we...
to do that is just money.
If we have money, we start
all what we want to do.
Yeah.
Jesse: Yeah.
Oh, that's exciting.
You would have Jacob's Well right there.
That would be
Speaker 3: awesome.
Jesse: If people were to come.
Yes.
that's really cool.
yes.
let me say, also that, I...
You started through, with some help,
you started a GiveSendGo account so that
people from anywhere in the world could
donate- Yeah to help with this project.
and, I've donated just to test it.
It works.
Yeah.
it's legit.
you've been vetted.
you're not a scammer.
You're not a fraudster.
You're not a...
Not that one.
Y- okay.
You're the real deal.
And-
Speaker 3: Thank
Jesse: you
Yeah.
So I do wanna explain to people
that- on the GiveSendGo site,
the donation funds are in, naira,
which is Nigerian currency, NGN.
so
Speaker 3: one US dollar is
exchanging for one hun- 1,300 naira.
Jesse: Okay, that's a good way to put it.
Say that again.
Speaker 3: the one US dollar is
exchanging for 1,300 in Nigeria.
Jesse: okay, 1,300 naira is one US dollar?
Yes, one
Speaker 3: US dollar.
Yes, for now.
That's, okay.
Yes, but it flu- it fluctuates.
Yeah, it goes down, it goes up.
Jesse: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Depending on
the mar- market indices.
Jesse: Okay.
So if somebody wanted to donate 50 US
dollars, they would have to make, they
would have to enter 1,300 times 50.
Okay, for somebody to donate
50 US dollars, that would
be-... roughly 65,000 naira.
Yes.
Yes.
Okay.
Yeah.
I got it.
I got it.
yes.
Sorry, listeners, for that confusion.
Anyway, and so anyway, that, I
just wanted to explain that because
some, I th- I don't want people
get scared off when they see those
commas in there it makes it- Yeah.
it's intimidating.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Jesse: So I will put a link in the
show notes to the GiveSunGo site, and
I'll also figure out an explanation of
the exchange rate, and, and I'll put
a link to your video of the current
property, and then maybe sometime
Whenever the Lord's done with it, we'll
put a video of the finished product.
So- By
Speaker 3: His grace.
By His grace
... Jesse: well, since, we-- our time is about
up, but I don't wanna just cut you off.
Is there anything else you
wanted to say about your life
or how the Lord's been working?
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Jesse, I honestly-- it has not been easy.
You know, to serve the Lord
It's not easy, actually,
but it's the grace of God.
We are grace-enabled.
The things we cannot do,
the Lord helps us to do-
Jesse: Mm-hmm
... Speaker 3: by His grace.
That's why Paul say he's who
he is by the grace of God.
And I'm trusting God that
we're after this level.
We're trusting God.
We don't know, but we're trusting that
God will also ââ or done to uphold
us, keep us, and use us to the best.
He knows how to get the best out of us.
And, we will yield ourselves.
What we do is just yield ourselves
until when He says, "You have done
your best," and when you think you
can no longer do as much as possible.
But for now, the Lord is helping us.
Helping us to raise people, raise money,
to teach people, and helping us to support
people in their very little way we can.
There are a lot of people who look
upon us for the encouragement they are
getting spiritually and, materially.
I remember-- I was telling my
members when we met and, from time
to time you will send me money.
I'll just go to my email and
I'll see you sent me money.
And I'm like ... I remember we wanted--
when we started the journey to buy
this property, I told you about it,
and you sent me $1,000, I can remember.
So you have been part of this work from
the beginning, and God has used people
like you to be an encouragement to me.
And there's nothing the Lord does
for me I don't say to my members.
They know me like that, and
I say it openly to everybody.
And that's who I am.
So I thank God for what He's doing.
We're trusting Him that He'll do
more for us, for His namesake.
Jesse: Well, I wanted to ask you, since
you're in Nigeria, how has the, Muslim
problem over there affected you and
your church, other than the fact that
you got locked out of your rental?
Speaker 3: Yeah.
yeah, I will tell you.
there was a time Our church
was sealed for noise pollution.
Jesse: For what?
Speaker 3: For noise pollution.
Yeah, for noise pollution.
It's part of the persecution-
Jesse: Yeah
Speaker 3: from the m-
from the Muslim community.
Yes.
And, because, because, darkness
and light cannot dwell together.
Darkness is always trying to exclude the
light, stop the gospel by whatever means.
So those are challenges that comes.
But honestly, God is faithful to us that
are actually in this part of, the country.
We are not, facing this
type of persecution.
Just like today, I was telling my
members, in this place we are worshiping
because of, the environment and, what
it looks like, the building looks like.
And I was telling them there are people,
our Christian brothers, who, are in
the northern part of the country.
They don't have a place
like this to worship.
Even if they have a place like this
to worship, they are worshiping there
with their four eyes, two at the
front, two at the back, and they are
not comfortable and trying to look out
for anything that will happen to them.
And they are not even sure that they
go to church and come back alive.
Jesse: Yeah.
S-
Speaker 3: so God is helping us,
that all that is happening in some
places have not found themselves
to this side where we are.
Yeah.
But we are also located in a predominant,
Muslim community- Oh ... where you
have, the noise of their prayer
blaring and, noise and all of that.
But we will try through prayer and
supplication- By trusting God to help
us to be able to build this church so
that we can also go to them to preach
to them and bring them to know the Lord.
Jesse: Wow.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Jesse: Well, you know, we got it so
easy over here in the US, we just don't
understand that kind of opposition.
Yes.
I know that- Yeah in, in the northern
part of the country that Christians are
just being killed- Yeah ... for their
faith, churches burnt down, torn down.
it, just, it, I just want anybody who's
listening to this to pray that God will
continue to protect not just you and
your church, but all the Christians
over there and all the congregations
from this satanic thing that's going
on called, I don't really- Amen I don't
want to get into Muslim bashing, but
it doesn't seem to me like a religion.
It seems like a political movement that's
using the religion to further its aims.
Speaker 3: it's not easy, but, if
you understand that, everybody's
lost without Jesus Christ.
Yes.
Without Christ, people will
live in darkness until they die.
Yeah.
Jesse: He's
Speaker 3: the source of light and he's
the source of life, and if God's grace
has not located you, and, you receive
the gospel that brings the light of
Jesus Christ, you remain in darkness.
So they need to be prayed for.
They need to be prayed for.
I'm happy.
Honestly, I'm happy because, recently
you see videos of Muslims who
have given their lives to Christ.
Jesse: Yeah.
Speaker 3: And are preaching the gospel.
Yeah.
And they have their country to
speak to their former fellow Muslims
in the language they understand.
So if you preach to such people like
that and they give their lives to
Christ, you can imagine how far they
will go in speaking to their own
people and bringing them to the Lord.
Jesse: Yeah.
Speaker 3: So that's why we need the
power of God, the Spirit of God, the
Word of God, and, just to preach to them.
you have no power to change anybody.
Your role is to preach the gospel
and allow the Holy Spirit to
use the word of God to convert,
convict them, and then bring them
to the knowledge of Jesus Christ
Jesse: And I see your new church
property as a light, in that darkness
Speaker 3: By God's grace.
Yeah.
You were not there today, but
that's the prayer we prayed.
I told them that light has come to
this community by, through this church.
Light has come to this community.
By God's grace, this light will
shine brighter and brighter
through the light of the
gospel of Jesus Christ.
Jesse: That's beautiful.
Well, that's, sounds like a good place
to stop, but before we do, I would like
you to do two things for our listeners.
One, do you have any advice for
Christians, who may be listening to this?
And then after that, I want to
ask you to pray for everybody
who will ever hear this podcast.
So what kind of wisdom do you
have for believers, all around
Speaker 3: the world?
the word I like to give to believers
is word of encouragement to continue
to remain steadfast in the Lord
and the power of His salvation.
There is no other way, is to
trust that Jesus Christ is the
way, the truth, and the life.
There's no other means of salvation.
There's no other name that is given
among men by which we are saved.
I was somebody who was living in sin, and
until I heard the gospel of Jesus Christ,
I came to know that there's another
life better than the one I was living.
And so if you are such a person that
have the privilege of salvation, coming
to know the Lord, you must value it
and try as much as possible to remain
steadfast because this is a time that
the social media is ridiculing the church
and the pastors and the name of the
Lord, and a lot of teachings are going
on here and there, and people no longer
know what to trust, what to believe.
So you as a believer, you try
to be prayerful and try to
be rooted in the word of God.
S- continue to study God's word.
Continue to seek the Holy Spirit to
be your helper and your teacher and
your comforter, your paraclete, the
one that is given to you to reveal
all things to you so that you will not
be living, dangling like a pendulum.
Today you are cold, tomorrow you are hot.
You are in the church today, next
tomorrow you're out of the church.
Because what you read in the,
in social media can discourage
Jesse: you.
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 3: So you leave Facebook and
face the Book of the Lord- ... 'cause
He holds the power for life.
Jesse: I like that.
I like that.
Yeah, when, s- God asked Solomon to tell
Him what he wanted, he said he needed
wisdom to, to, lead his people, and- Yeah
... yeah, and when he asked for wisdom instead
of victory over his enemies or riches
and honor, God gave him everything,
Speaker 3: Sure.
Jesse: So
We gotta immerse ourselves in the Word,
because that's where we get wisdom.
Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Yes.
You have to rekindle the
fire of the Word of God.
Rekindle the fire of the Holy Spirit.
Rekindle the fire of prayer,
of personal d- meditation,
and then just trust the Lord.
Have confidence in what He has
given, what He has said in His Word.
His Word never falls to the ground,
just like He said in Isaiah 55.
Jesse: Yeah.
Speaker 3: It never returns to Him void.
Jesse: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Jesse: would you pray for, with the
people that are listening to this,
both Christians and non-Christians?
Speaker 3: Okay, let's pray.
Father, we thank you because
you are the God of all ages.
Thank you because of your grace and
because of your Son, Jesus Christ,
whom you have given to us to be
our propitiation, to be the Lord
that bring us to your knowledge
and reveal who you are to us.
We are grateful unto you.
Lord, we do not qualify for this,
but your grace has qualified us.
For everyone who is listening that is
struggling with one problem or the other,
Lord, may you show yourself strong.
Struggling spiritually, struggling
materially, struggling in health,
in any area of their life, Lord,
may you intervene and show yourself
strong, that you are still in the
midst of your people working out
miracles, salvation, and deliverance
in their lives in the name of Jesus.
Thank you for your Son, a wife that
you have used to be a blessing, oh God.
An encouragement to us.
Pray that you sustain them and keep
them in the name of Jesus Christ.
I pray, oh God, for all those that
are yet to come to your knowledge.
Because you said in your word, no one can
come to you except my Father draws him.
Nobody can know me except
my Father reveals him to me.
Lord, I pray, oh God, in your
grace, may you open the eyes of
the blind, spiritually blind.
Cause them, oh God, to come to
the light of the knowledge of
Jesus Christ through the gospel.
And wherever your gospel is preached,
oh God, may you open the hearts of many
that they will accept Jesus as Lord and
Savior because there is no other way.
Thank you, Abba Father.
You ask to give us the enablement
to continue to preach your word.
Let our voices be heard, oh God, and the
kingdom of darkness will be defeated and
your name will be lifted and exalted.
Thank you, Abba Father.
In Jesus' name I pray.
Amen.
Jesse: Amen.
Speaker 3: Thank you.
Jesse: Hey, this is Jesse.
Thank you for hanging in
there for the whole podcast.
I know it was a little difficult hearing
at times if you're interested in
helping this pastor and his small church
in Lagos, Nigeria, we have set up a
Give Send Go account, givesendgo.com.
You can, click on the
link in the show notes.
It'll take you right to his
church, building fundraising page.
And like I said, it's in, Nigerian naira,
and it's 1,360 naira per US dollar.
So if you wanted to donate $100, you
would have to enter in 136,000 NGN.
I know it looks scary, but it, it really
does only charge you in US dollars.
Now, Give Send Go doesn't charge a fee
for providing this service, but there's a
third-party payment processing fee of 3.5%
plus 30 cents per donation.
So if you were to donate $100, the
recipient would receive $96.20,
and the charge on your
credit card will be $100.
I don't intend to make this
podcast a fundraising thing, but
this is a unique opportunity.
I felt led by the Holy Spirit
to help Pastor Kingsley and his
congregation, especially since
they're gonna be, witnessing to
the Muslims in that part of Lagos.
Thank you very much for hanging in
there, and if Holy Spirit's leading
you to donate, thank you for that too.
God bless you.
Speaker 4: We hope you've
been blessed by today's story.
if you've heard something that you think
could help someone you know, please share
it using the link in the show notes.
Thank you for listening today, and
Shalom.
