Faith & Purpose

Cailin: Welcome everyone to
Faith and Purpose podcast.

Each episode of this podcast contains the
personal testimony of an ordinary person

transformed by an extraordinary God.

My name is Kaylin and I'm
here to introduce this podcast

for my friend Jesse Duke.

Jesse is a husband, father, author,
life recovery guide, lay counselor,

and small group leader, but his
most important role is disciple.

As a disciple of Jesus.

Jesse created this podcast to help other
believers tell their faith stories.

We'll be hearing the personal
testimonies of all sorts of people

who have one thing in common,
Jesus has transformed their lives.

Jesus used parables because he created
us to learn best through story.

And as we listen to how God has worked
in others lives, we find encouragement

and inspiration for our own faith walk.

Whether you are already a believer or
just a curious seeker, we believe that

as you listen to these stories, you will
be encouraged on your own faith journey.

We are sure that God can speak to you
through one of these episodes and that you

will see that our Heavenly Father truly
works all things together for our good.

When we simply love and trust him.

If you are currently going through a
trial, we believe that you will come

to see that your troubles, heartbreaks,
and failures are not gravestones, but

stepping stones into new life in Christ.

Here's Jesse with today's guest.

Hey, this is Jesse.

Before we get into today's story.

I need to.

Do a mayor Copa.

In preparing for the interview.

I relied on an old bio that I found
online thinking I was being clever

to do my pre-interview homework.

And without asking Mr.

Marshall first, I use
that old information.

But to his great credit and
he didn't ask for a retake.

But used my mistake to praise God.

As you hear.

And of course I appreciated this
response and it made the rest of

his story even more meaningful.

So I learned another lesson about
how to do a podcast interview.

Thank you Grayson.

So here it is.

Yeah.

Jesse: Well, welcome everybody
to Faith and Purpose podcast.

Today, I have a new friend, Grayson
Marshall, who's here to tell his story.

Grayson is a husband and a father
of three girls and one boy.

And he's got a lot more
going on than that.

And I'm going to let him tell his story.

So, uh, I'm really
looking forward to this.

How are you doing today, Grayson?

I'm good, Jesse.

I'm good.

I want to make sure that we stay
integrous and, and truthful.

I was married for 20 years.

I am no longer married.

I've been divorced five years, but
I have three beautiful daughters.

One son and four grandkids.

So, life in that space was
an amazing, amazing time.

I appreciate the time as a father.

those things will never leave
me when it comes down to it.

The essence of my kids are who they are.

what I went through made me better.

so I look at that all
as a positive for me.

It's made my new relationship one
of the most amazing ones ever.

So I'm grateful for everything that
went on because it really allows

me to embrace my new relationship
with Evie in an amazing way.

So, I guess that's in light of
what we're talking about here, how

things change when you meet God.

my, you know, my story goes back to, I
was born and raised in Washington, D.

C.

And, um, uh, my mother was a
principal, my dad was a teacher.

Uh, so I grew up in an educational family.

My family was all about improvement,
being the best version of yourself.

That was what I was raised in.

I have a younger sister who is
the head of online education

for the Department of Defense.

So everybody in my family
was academically inclined.

Um, that was a part of our DNA.

And I think that, um, my parents
did the best job they could

do to give me a blueprint.

on how to live life.

Um, I have a unique story,
I think, because I was born

and raised Roman Catholic.

So, that was the first introduction
to any sort of, and I'll use

the term, religion that I had.

So, because my mother was devout,
every aspect of Catholicism,

I engaged in, you know.

So, I was an altar boy.

I went through my first penance, my
holy communion, all these things,

and they were ritualistic things
that I just accepted as my life.

So, it was never about relationship,
it was always about a ritual,

it was always about a routine.

And that's what I limited religion
to, that's what I thought it was.

And, it was introduced to
me as a, it was a qualifying

prerequisite to do anything else.

Right, so if I wanted to play
sports, I had to go to church.

I wanted to go to the Redskins
game on Sunday, I go to church, you

know, that was always something.

So God being first in my life, or
put it this way, church being first

in my life was what I grew up in.

I didn't really, I didn't
really know God, I knew church.

And so I did church, I did church the
way that I was supposed to do church.

Again, I believe that for me
personally, church was just a formality.

It wasn't an, it wasn't an interesting
search to become, it was just

something I had to go through.

Grayson: Right.

Jesse: But, you know, so I did that, but
I did know that my gifting and talent

came from God, and as a young guy, I
was very, very athletically inclined.

So I played everything growing up.

Um, there was nothing I
didn't play growing up.

I swam, I ran, I played basketball,
I played football, I played

baseball, I did everything.

and because I excelled in sports, I
was able to obtain a, um, a private

school education, my mom and dad made
the sacrifice because they always gave

me what they believe was the upper hand
to being the best version of myself.

Uh, I got to, uh, I ended up going to
a boys military school from seventh

to 12th grade, all boys military.

And, uh, it was a choice that I made.

And I made the choice because I
always wanted to be different.

Growing up in Washington, D.

C., sports is something that
is, uh, very well appreciated,

established, and looked at.

And there were schools that were
known for success in basketball.

And everybody wanted to go there.

Well, I decided I wanted
to go to the rival.

And so I said, I don't
want to go where you are.

I want to go to the other side.

And I convinced a group of my guys
to go to the other school with me.

And we ended up becoming their rival
and literally winning more than we

lost against the number one team.

So I think,

Grayson: at the military school?

Jesse: yeah, it was military school.

Right.

Grayson: Okay.

Is that, and that was in D.

C.?

Jesse: Absolutely.

Uh, St.

John's, which is now COED, but it
was an all boy, 2607 military road.

Grayson: Okay.

Jesse: We actually wore full regalia.

We were in, um, full cadet
uniforms all day long.

And, um, we actually did inspection
every morning, um, before class.

And then after school on Tuesdays and
Thursdays, we actually had drills.

We had to march and practice formation
and do those kinds of things.

So we did that all growing up.

So I combined that.

And the reason people didn't want
to go there is because they didn't

want to wear the military uniform.

So I decided, okay, now I didn't
have a military background.

My dad was in the army, but that
was never an influence on my life.

I just was going to be different.

I just like doing what
everybody else wasn't doing.

That was just me.

And so, um, I ended up getting, um,
good enough in basketball to, uh,

be offered a scholarship to play
at the collegiate level, and that

was done at Clemson university.

So I was able to go to Clemson
in South Carolina, not real, not

realizing at the time that my.

Um, familial heritage was
reared in South Carolina.

So, um, my grandfather, my
paternal grandfather was from

South Carolina and my maternal
grandmother was from South Carolina.

I didn't know that at the
time, um, but figured that out.

So, obviously, I was going back to
my roots and I didn't know that.

I ended up going to Clemson
and it was a crazy set of

circumstances that got me there.

Because I had actually Committed to
University of Richmond, which was

90 minutes away from Washington, D.

C.

Thought I'd be close to home, my parents
would come see me all the time, play,

I thought it was the best scenario.

And I ended up, um, literally auditioning
for Clemson without knowing it.

And the audition went so well,
because we were playing that number

one team I was telling you about,
the audition went so well that they

offered me a scholarship the next day.

Grayson: Wow.

Jesse: And I said, I flew to Clemson,
the Albany scholarship, and I took it.

I verbally committed to it because
that was the best basketball

conference in the world.

I said, I'm going to
play against the best.

I come back home.

I'm excited about it.

And about a couple weeks later, the coach
that recruited me took another job at

the University of Miami, and he wanted
me to go to Miami and sit out a year.

And I said, I'm not
sitting out for anybody.

I said, so I went back
and started over again.

Richmond still wanted me.

So I'm headed back to Richmond.

Well, the next day, Clemson
hires Cliff Ellis as a new coach.

And that year, Cliff, the year
before Cliff had been, um.

He had been coaching in the
Sunbelt of South Alabama.

My uncle, who was an excellent basketball
player at the time, was a nationally

evaluated referees at the time.

And that year he was
working in the Sunbelt.

So Cliff Ellis found out that Jim
Hollow was my mother's brother.

And Cliff calls my uncle and says, I
need to talk to your nephew because

all the other kids that had verbally
committed left and went to Miami.

I was the only one left.

And so he calls me up and he says,
you need to meet with this guy.

And I said, Uncle Jim, I'll meet with
him, but I'm not going to Clemson

because I'd already gone through that.

I don't want to do that again.

So, but because of you,
I'll meet with him.

And the next day, Cliff
Ellis was at my house.

And he talked, we talked for about two
hours and next thing I know is right

back at Clemson and it's the best thing,
the best thing that ever happened to me.

And I say that, Jesse, because
even when I didn't know God,

I can look back and see God.

Even when I didn't really understand
what I know now, I can actually look

back over my life and see where he kept
me, how he kept me, how he guided my

steps when I didn't know he was doing it.

Um, I can see in my life where I
was walking by faith as a practice

a long time ago because I didn't
know what I was getting into.

I was going to a school that
the coach didn't even know me.

He had never, he had never
personally seen me play.

He was going on the fact that I
had verbally committed and went

out and recruited some of the kids.

So when I got to Clemson, there
were other kids he had recruited.

And at first I said to myself, I made
a mistake, but I was always raised

to follow through in your commitment.

And for me, or for what I was reared
in, school was not about sports.

It was about getting your degree.

So I said, all I want
to do is get my degree.

That was my whole purpose for doing it.

Grayson: Yeah, I read somewhere
that your goal was to not have your

parents pay for your education.

You wanted to get it on your
own, and that was awesome.

Jesse: Yeah, that was my, my,
my whole purpose for getting a

scholarship was because so they
wouldn't have to pay for college.

That was my whole reason for doing it.

Grayson: Mm hmm.

Jesse: And when I got that, I
was kind of, okay, I did this.

So then I have my own little plan
about how I was going to, because

I wanted to play, but I have my own
little plan about getting it done.

Cause this is the best
conference in the world.

The guy who is starting, I've
been starting for two years.

So I figured I'm going to go compete.

I'll compete for some time.

And then by the time I'm
a junior, it's my game.

Cause that's how it
happened in high school.

Grayson: Mm hmm.

Jesse: By the time I was
a junior, it was my game.

So I said, okay, I'll just
do this all over again.

Well, God had a different plan.

He accelerated the process and I
ended up starting as a freshman

and I started from four years.

I graduated the all time ACC career
assist leader when I graduated.

I still hold every
assist record at Clemson.

I was inducted into the hall of fame in
2009 and named an ACC legend in 2016.

So I made the right decision.

But at the time, if I looked at what
I was doing, this seemed to be crazy.

You're going to play for somebody
who's never seen you play before.

And so when I look back again,
when I think people, as they really

evaluate their lives, If they really
take a hard look at where they are

today, they can really see where they
could have been, and they'll need to

understand that that was God, because
you could have been somewhere else.

You could have been in anything else.

But God kept me through all that, and I
was, you know, I was excited about that.

I think that going to college and
then getting out, Jesse, was when

I really began to look for answers.

I think that growing up, when you're
When you excel academically, when you

excel athletically, we think we're
the answer and pretty much for, for

all intents and purposes, because
we're not focused on anything else,

we rely on ourselves and sports as
a platform is driven by motivation.

You know, that's the, that's the elemental
mantra of sports being motivated.

Right.

And, um, it was for me,
I subscribed to that.

I even talked to my book.

I said, I wasn't motivated.

I was competitive.

I've always had this thing about
motivation and I never subscribed to it.

I was competitive.

I wasn't motivated.

And the competition was I just had to
be better and it wasn't in comparison,

it was just, I want to be better.

I don't like to lose.

That was just kind of where my
mindset was and I really didn't leave.

I really didn't understand that
these were mindsets of Christ.

I can do all things through
Christ who strengthens me.

When I really look at the mindset that
I had, it was really a Christ mindset.

When it came down to the foundational
beliefs, because I never bought into

motivation, I bought into competitive,
I bought into drive, I bought into

purpose, I bought into will, I bought
into destiny, I bought into faith.

And I didn't even know what I
was buying into at the time.

I had no idea.

So when I got out of school, because
that was my mindset, Jesse, I had

no aspiration to play pro sports.

And when I talked to people about that,
they're like, well, you were here, you

were, you were right, that was you.

But it wasn't me.

And probably should have been,
but it wasn't based on where I got

and what I had achieved and many
estimations what I'd overachieved.

Why would I not go to the next level?

Well, because I was married to Plan
B and I'll break that down for you.

There's a verse of scripture, Jesse,
that changed my life 20 something

years ago, and it's Mark 7 and 13.

And it says the traditions of man
make the Word of God in none effect.

Man's traditions.

And what does that mean?

That means what you have
accepted as your path in life.

What you see around you.

What you see on a normal basis.

Man's tradition.

So man's tradition for me said
go to school, get your degree.

Right?

Man's tradition never told
me to pursue my passion.

I grew up with, again,
with educated parents.

I grew up with parents who were educators.

Never told me to pursue my passion.

Never talked to me about my passion.

Man's tradition.

And I believe that's, that's
an element of the world.

It's not just my parents.

I don't believe many people have
been taught to follow their passions.

I believe most people have been
taught to follow what they're good at.

I mean, I believe most people have been
told to follow what they test well at.

I believe many people have been taught
to follow what pays the most, right?

I think these are the prerequisites
for what you do and not your passion.

So I was just like everybody else.

I excelled in what I was supposed to
be doing, not my passion, And for the

most part, I didn't know what that was.

So it's kind of hard to excel in
something when you don't know what it is.

So when I talk about being
married to plan B, plan B was

always something to fall back on.

Your degree was always
something to fall back on.

And when I look at God and when
I look at what he has done in

life, there was no plan B for God.

It was always plan A.

It was always just the
way it's going to be.

But we subsequently live in plan B.

And here's what I realized about plan B.

Plan B puts you comfortable.

I say the greatest adversary that we face.

It's not a spiritual devil.

It's not social issues.

It's not a bad economy.

The biggest struggle that we face, the
biggest adversary we face is comfort.

Grayson: Yeah, that's good.

Jesse: Because when you get
comfortable, you're no threat.

See, the internet only attacks someone
or goes after somebody who's a threat.

We've been seduced so much into being
comfortable, we're not a threat.

We don't strike fear in the end because
all I have to do is get you comfortable.

How do I do that?

Maybe I'll give you
some governmental money.

Maybe I'll put you in a career
that makes you comfortable.

Maybe I'll put you in a church
that makes you comfortable.

Now you're not a threat.

I don't have to buy, I don't
have to worry about you.

And so I let you literally take care
of yourself and move you away from your

passion because you're not a threat.

You've been accustomed to
systems, and you'd rather

perform than pursue your passion.

Grayson: So let me just clarify this now.

So plan B is when we pursue our
strengths, what we, we know we

can, we can do in our own strength.

Plan A would be.

following our passion,
which is God's plan.

Jesse: Correct.

So, so when I get to, when I look at plan
B, so like, look at it this way, Jesse.

Plan A would be to play professional
basketball, if that was my plan A.

But plan B is my degree to fall back on.

So here's what happens.

If plan B is already there, I never
fully engage in plan A, never, because

I've always got plan B here, right?

I never, I never do that, but if plan B
is not there, all I got is plan A, that

means everything I do goes into plan A.

That means I had to have
total faith in plan A.

If I have plan B, all my faith isn't
in plan A, it's in both plan A and

plan B, and faith can't be split.

The reality of it is for most of
us, this is where we find ourselves.

And so we find ourselves
not walking by faith.

We end up walking by sight, even
though the word tells us that

Corinthians 5 7 don't do that, right?

We think about what faith is, and by
biblical definition, the Bible says faith

is the substance of things hoped for.

The evidence of things not seen.

Well, in our English language,
Jesse, evidence is faith.

Is things you see.

So when we're looking for
evidence, even though we don't

want to, evidence is what we see.

So we literally walk by what we
see and we're not supposed to.

He says the evidence things not seen, but
we're always looking for God to show up.

I need a sign.

That's evidence.

That's something to see.

Walking by faith is the
things you don't see.

So when I began to look at where
I was in life, I had to really

reassess so many other things.

And once I really got into my Bible
at 27, when I was homeless, then I

began to grab and understand some
principles that I'd always lived by, I

just didn't know how to explain them.

They began to make sense to me, even
though I had lived them, but I didn't know

where they were, where they came from.

They just seemed to fit.

And so when I began to really look
at what it took and things that were

there, that began to change my life.

Getting to know Christ.

Was something that was
unbelievably beneficial for me

Grayson: let me interrupt you right there.

I need to ask you, how did you
get from that Catholic upbringing

to where you came to at 27?

Jesse: when I got to 27, I had already
tried to make a life change prior to that.

So I knew Jesse that when I realized
my degree wasn't what it was

supposed to be for me, that was,
that was a harsh reality for me.

Right.

When I, when I, when I did what they
asked me to do, and I really believe

I prescribed to the student athlete,
the way it was supposed to be done.

I get out here, take my degree,
use my degree and go build a life.

What I found was, is that that
degree was a disadvantage more

than an advantage many times.

Grayson: Mm hmm.

Jesse: has four years experience, and
he's been doing it since high school,

and Grayson Marshall has four years
of college and has never done it,

when Jesse Dukes and Grayson Marshall
sit down, Jesse Dukes gets hired.

Why?

Because he has four years experience.

So what did I literally gain from college?

I gained world experience.

I gained, uh, access to maybe things
other people don't have, but I'm behind

the, I'm behind the game now because
Jesse, who didn't even go to college, is

already making more money than Grayson.

He's already got a four year head
start in the working world on Grayson.

So literally what I thought
was a benefit for me.

Really became a detractor
more times than not.

So that was frustrating.

And I knew competitively,
Jesse, I wanted more.

I knew that I wanted stuff.

I knew that I wanted life.

So how are people getting stuff?

How are people living this dream?

I, I, um, I sheepishly say that
growing up, I love soap opera.

I used to watch soap operas growing
up and I watched them because.

I knew it was TV, but I love the
illusion of what I thought at that

time, but I knew it wasn't real.

But being a corporate executive,
you know, walking into boardrooms

and making decisions and wearing
suits every day, I mean, to me, it

was the coolest thing in the world.

And that's what I really wanted.

I wanted to be in the business
world, but I didn't have anybody

that was in the business world.

My parents were both in the working world.

So I began to pursue business without
a coach, without somebody to teach me.

And ultimately, when
you do that, you fail.

Well, I failed miserably at times.

Success sometimes, misery at other times.

that's when I found myself
without a place to live.

And it was at that time that I
literally just was really crying out.

And I remember my grandmother
giving me a book in college.

Now, my grandmother was
saved as you can be.

My maternal grandmother.

And she gave me a book called
Hind's Feet on High Places.

Grayson: Yeah.

Jesse: And it was about David.

And so I began to really
study the life of David.

And I began to watch and look and
learn, and then I said, well, after

reading this and being who I am,
the Catholic Church doesn't help me.

I just said that now I don't, I
don't reduce the Catholic Church.

I believe there's salvation
in the Catholic Church.

There's a lot of Catholics I know that
love God and they, they're born again.

But, I couldn't go back
to the Catholic Church.

There was nothing about that that drew me
back, and there was no God for me there.

So I began to look for a church here
in Jacksonville, and I remember driving

down the road, and I looked up on a
billboard, and because I didn't know

anything about church, I figured if
there was a pastor on a billboard,

then he had to be legit, right?

So I didn't think he did that,
because I, you never saw a

Catholic church on a billboard.

So I'm like, okay, well, maybe this,
so I remember seeing the pastors, uh,

uh, advertising on the billboards.

And so I just drove to the church
and I pulled up to the church and

I tried to pull in the doors to get
in and all the doors were locked.

And the first thing that went through
my mind, Jesse was this, I've been

sinning so bad, I can't even get into
the church when I'm trying to get.

That was my, that was
what went through my head.

And I turned to walk away and
a guy came and opened the door.

His name was Drake Johnson,
minister Drake Johnson.

And, um, he took me and we talked for six
hours, took me to get something to eat.

And I began to pour my heart out to him.

And we talked for six hours
and he invited me to church.

And so I ended up going.

to church with him.

And I didn't know
anything about salvation.

I didn't know anything about anything.

Right.

But there was an altar call.

I didn't even know what that was.

There was an altar call and they
said, if you want to give your

life to Jesus, come on down here.

So I guess I was in a place of brokenness.

And again, I did not know what I
was doing, but Jesus come to him.

Sounds good.

I'm going down.

So I walked down to the front of church.

And they began to pray and then they
took us in his back room right now.

I didn't get, I had no idea what speaking
in tongues was and none of that stuff.

And when I got to the back room,
Jesse, they took us in his back room.

And to me, it was kind of spooky, right?

Cause you go into this room, all
these lights on and all these

people are praying in tongues.

And I'm sitting in Jesse when my
hands lifted up with one eye open.

I'm like, I don't trust you, right?

I mean, that's just where I was.

I'm being, I was like, this is
all new to me, but I figured I

knew what I'd gone through as a
Catholic wasn't gonna help me.

So I said, Okay, well, I'll
see what this looks like.

And I got, you know, got there
came back to service a couple

times and I remember feeling lost.

Right.

I remember hearing him
preach and just feeling lost.

Not like I didn't understand, like,
where are you going with this message?

Like, it doesn't mean anything.

It was more of the, it was more
the animations, the antics.

It was the hooping, it was
all that kind of stuff.

And I'm like, what,
what, what, what is this?

So I'm like, I left there and
at that time I was doing radio.

And my producer on the show, I was telling
him about, you know, getting, getting

saved and how my heart was feeling.

And he goes, man, you
need to come to my church.

And I said, okay.

And he told me that his church
name was the Potter's house.

And I said, well, that ain't
no name, no church, man.

I ain't going to a place
called the Potter's house.

I don't know what that is.

So he told me about, he told me about
the book of Jeremiah and being on a

potter's wheel, and that was his based on.

I said, okay.

So he said, well, I
said, when's the service?

They're Friday night.

I said, man, I'll go
to my church on Friday.

Oh, he said, uh, I said, I said,
do you have a church on Sunday?

He said, yeah.

He said, uh, I said, what time is it?

Eight o'clock.

I said, okay, I'll be there.

So I remember going into the Potter's
house and they were still in the multiplex

at the time and Bishop came and preached
at eight o'clock and it was one of

the most moving things I'd ever heard.

It was an amazing, amazing, uh, uh,
message that the music was awesome.

I'm like, okay.

This is cool.

I can do this.

This is all right.

So I ended up just getting entrenched in
the ministry, entrenched in the message.

Um, I didn't do anything for
about three years, just be there.

That's all I was doing.

I was just there.

And then shortly after being
there for a while, uh, he asked

me to take over basketball.

And then I started the Blacktop,
which is outside street ministry.

It slowly progressed into just about
everything and then I started a

basketball program there and built it
to one of the best ones in the city.

But it was all about, um,
really learning to love Christ.

But I think for me, um, I always
wanted to really serve God

in the best way that I could.

And I was able to hear
scripture and listen to it and

understand it and retain it.

And there was so much that were there.

And because I didn't know anything
about church, I didn't know what to

look for, but I felt good being there.

Right.

And I felt like the
presence of God was there.

And I felt like, um, I
was learning so much.

Bishop taught me so much about exegesis
and isogesis and homiletics and

hermeneutics and every aspect of, sharing
the gospel Bishop Paul McLaughlin,

an amazing guy and I think that, uh,
when you, when you come into where you

are in life and in ministry, I think
one of the things that people don't

do is understand what it really is.

And I believe that a parent
raises a child to leave his house.

And I think for most ministries, people
pride themselves on staying there.

Grayson: Hmm.

Jesse: And I think that that
becomes a conflict for some people.

And I think that's why people can't
move into where they need to be.

But I was a little bit different.

I knew when it was time for me
to move to somewhere else, and it

wasn't necessarily another church.

And I think people have the
misunderstanding of that.

I think it's time for you to go
and do what God called you to do.

And oftentimes, um, it's
misunderstood oftentimes, but

you have to know who you are.

And I think that's why I'm so
adamant about now sharing with

people to follow their passion.

And what is it?

You've got God to answer to, not man.

And he puts people in your life
to give you directions, to point

you in the right direction, to
pull you back and let you go.

Discipleship is about literally
teaching you to be a disciple of Christ,

not a member of a church so much.

And I think that the whole misconception
today is about church membership.

Grayson: Right.

Jesse: about baptisms.

It's about who got saved,
all this kind of stuff.

And then I think it's, it's a
misleading and a misrepresentation

of what it really is.

Grayson: Hmm.

Jesse: For me, having God in my life,
and Bishop was a major, major piece of

that, um, gave me the strength and the
wherewithal to go be and do everything

that I've done, you know, in life.

I think that, uh, it's really
respecting where things are.

I think it's understanding, uh, who
you are and growing to be who you are.

You know, God made us
individually different.

But school made us alike as possible,
and tradition makes us alike as possible.

So church makes us alike
as possible, right?

So if I'm a certain denomination,
I have to be an act Baptist.

I have to be an act Church of God.

I'm going to act like a
Church of God person, right?

So now I become defined by
my label I've accepted, and I

lose, I lose my individuality.

I'm not who I am.

Um, this is who, right, this people
begin to assimilate themselves

with the larger group instead of
focusing on and really adhering to

or enhancing their own individuality.

So again, that's why I said Mark 7
and 13, the traditions of man make

the Word of God in none effect.

There's some, there's some things we
accept in tradition that don't allow

us to be who we're supposed to be.

And that can be a frustrating thing
at the time, and I think there's

a lot of people, Jesse out there,
that are frustrated with that.

Because they don't know.

Um, we've gotten away from
really sharing the gospel.

And the gospel isn't just
getting people saved.

It's more than that.

It's a way we live and let our light
so shine before men that we might

seem, uh, they might seem our works of
glorifying the Father, which is in heaven.

That's what the gospel
should result in, right?

Because again, if salvation or getting
saved is your ultimate goal, once

you get saved, you get comfortable.

Grayson: Right,

Jesse: And once you get comfortable,
you're no threat to the kingdom.

Grayson: right.

Mm-Hmm.

Jesse: we have to change some things
when it comes down to the messaging

that we give in today's world.

You know, so when I look at what God did
in my life, um, he kind of reinforced what

I was as a little kid, just different.

I don't want to do like everybody else,
you know, now, again, that to me, models

of some of the life that Jesus had,
because he wasn't received by his own.

The Bible says he went into his
own and his own received him.

Not, he did it different.

He did it so different
that his own people.

Didn't know, didn't understand him.

He said he went into his own,
and his own one received him.

Now, I mean, how does that feel to be
able to go into your own people and

say, look, I'm here, and everybody's
like, nah, you're not the one.

But he still, but he knew
what his message was.

He knew what his assignment
was from day one.

He knew what plan A was.

As a matter of fact, even Jesus as an
earthly man, Jesse, tried to get plan B.

When he was in the garden, he said,
look, he said, if it'd be possible,

let this cut past before me.

He was like, look, I know we
talked about this up there.

I was with it when I left.

I'm going down there, you know,
down the sprawls, you know,

they, they gonna come back to us.

That's what we're gonna do.

But when he got down there, right
before he was supposed to do

this, He said, can we talk pops?

Look, um, I've been with
this thing for a long time.

Uh, it sounded good when we started.

Now I'm down here.

It's about to happen tomorrow.

Is there anything else we can do?

We have no plan B.

There is no plan B.

It's the only plan that works.

And I think if we begin to really
look at that as a model, we

have to understand what it is.

Now, why did that model work for Jesus?

Because he knew exactly what
it was from the beginning.

He had one assignment.

From the beginning.

And I think that's where we, that's
where we are challenged because we

don't know what that one assignment is.

We have to find it.

And oftentimes it's guided
by someone else's agenda.

Our assignment usually is
shaped into somebody else's

big picture or somebody else.

Grayson: Yeah.

Jesse: Absolutely.

And not ours.

So we get caught up in that,
that tradition makes the

word of God of none effect,

So for me now, where I am and
building self and no excuses.

I think I want people to be, um, I
want to be real instead of relevant.

I think everybody, I think there's
a messaging today, Jesse, that

people want to be relevant.

They want to have a meaning today.

No, you need to be real.

Relevance goes with the culture,
you know, and I think because you

want to be relevant, you become
fluid and you change with the wind.

And the Bible talks about it in James.

It says we're tossed to
and fro by anyone adopting.

You want to be relevant.

You tend to assimilate to.

The culture, if you want to be
relevant, I want it, but that's

not what I supposed to be relevant.

It was supposed to be real.

Grayson: Mm.

Jesse: There's a, again, it's
the, it's the influence of man.

It's the influence of tradition
that wants it to be relevant.

Why we, we're supposed to not be of
the world, be in it, but not of it,

but we become of it instead of in it.

We start looking like.

We start looking like it, right?

So it becomes, so what,
what's the result of that?

It's a watered down version
of who we're supposed to be.

Grayson: Mm

Jesse: Our light now has it now
light now has a, um, has a color

bulb instead of a true light bulb.

You know, it's, it's,
it's still giving light.

It's just not giving the same light.

You know what I mean?

It's given a completely different light.

So for me, I'm.

I'm adamant about, challenging people to
do that, challenging people to put their

passion first, When we talk about the
gospel, the gospel should do four things.

It should challenge, it should
confront, it should convert.

And it should show compassion.

That's what the gospel should do.

But when we live in this era that we're
living in, where you have things like

diversity, equity, and inclusion, and
you have everybody loving themselves.

Well, here's the reality.

There is no challenge because if you
challenge or you confront, now you

are either phobic or you're canceled.

So we can't even share the gospel because
that's what the gospel is supposed to do.

So what we end up doing
is debating and arguing.

And I don't believe Jesus ever
debated or argued with anybody.

I think we just need to stay
focused on where we are.

So for me, When I'm sharing the messaging
of Build Self With No Excuses, it's

about building yourself as God sees you.

Build yourself as God has ordained
or put out there for you to be.

How can we build ourselves to be the
best version of ourselves in God's eyes?

You know, when it comes down to
it, we have to be able to deal

with the issues of the day.

But I don't think people want to deal
with them because they're not equipped

enough to understand their Bible.

They don't believe it enough.

And so we've got to get to a place
where we are encouraging people

to stand for God in the right way.

You don't have to argue with people.

You just live something before them.

You know, when I use sports
analogies a lot, Jesse, and one

of the greatest college basketball
coaches was a guy named John Wooden.

John Wooden, they called
him the Wizard of Westwood.

He was the head coach at University
of California, Los Angeles,

or as most people know, UCLA.

And he went through
winning 10 national titles.

And he had some great players.

He had Walton, he had Jabbar.

I mean, you go through
it, he had the great ones.

But one of the things that, um, made
him so significant as a coach is

that he never scouted his opponent.

Not one time.

Now in sports, usually we scout
the other team so we can have a

strategic advantage or be prepared.

Grayson: right?

Jesse: philosophy was
a little bit different.

He said, I believe that if I'm so good at
what I do, it doesn't matter what you do.

If I'm so good at what I do,
I don't care what you do.

But I think we've gotten to a place
where we're more concerned about

what the other people do, instead
of getting real good at what we do.

I hear so many people in spirit, in
spiritual language, say the devil's busy.

I hear it all the time.

Man, the devil's busy, devil is devil.

Well, hold on a minute.

Is God not busy too?

Why are we focused on the devil?

This is where our mind goes.

We're so fixated on the problem,
instead of knowing we have a solution.

Why don't we focus on
the solution some more?

And this again, this man's tradition,
we've been taught that fear is what

we have to face and get, but he says
he didn't give it a spirit of fear,

but a power and love and a sound mind.

We're focused on the wrong stuff.

So when it really comes down to
where we are, how do we really

get proficient at the God stuff?

When people are looking at
becoming, counterfeit, experts,

when they're being trained on
how to really see a counterfeit,

they don't study counterfeits.

They study the original paper.

Grayson: Right,

Jesse: get so good at knowing what
the original looks like, they can spot

a counterfeit a hundred miles away.

Grayson: right.

So the analogy is that when
we get closer to Jesus.

we will easily see what's not Jesus.

Jesse: Absolutely.

Absolutely.

Absolutely.

And the bad part about it, Jesse,
is that unfortunately we've aligned

ourselves with what's not Jesus.

Grayson: Right.

Jesse: And we've committed to it
to where when we realize it's not

Jesus, it's hard for us to walk away.

So when we hear things about what
we've aligned with, that when you

really are presented with something
that says, no, that ain't Jesus,

it's hard for people to not do it.

Why?

Because everybody else is doing it.

Grayson: Right.

Jesse: And they don't Absolutely.

Man's tradition makes the
Word of God into effect.

Tradition says you have
to be in the church.

It gives us all these
things that we battle with.

And I'm not telling
people, don't go to church.

What I'm saying to you is, is
that, is where you're going

really representing Christ?

And that doesn't mean they
don't believe in the gospel.

That's not what I'm saying.

I'm saying to you, is it really
representing Christ when you

look at it as for what it is?

Most of what our deliveries
today are, are entertainment.

How can I get you in?

Well, here's the reality, Jesse.

The gospel is supposed to attract.

The gospel's not enough.

We have to put on plays and concerts.

Don't get me wrong.

I'm not opposed to any of those
things as methodology, but when

it's the way that you attract me,
here's what you have to remember.

If I attract you that way, I got
to keep doing that to keep you.

Grayson: Right.

It becomes an idol.

Jesse: Absolutely.

Worshipping that as opposed to worship
the true and living God, right?

that's why, and that's why messaging like
this isn't going to go on many pulpits.

You know, when I, when I go, when
I actually get invited to a church,

they don't want me there really.

And I'm, I'm, I'm honest about that.

Cause I tell folk anywhere
I go to speak, my girlfriend

does not like me to say this.

But I do say this almost every
time I go speak, that I'm here for

one reason and one reason only,
and that's not to be ass backed.

Truth!

And I mean, and I mean that sincerely.

Now, I'm usually ass backed, but my goal
isn't to say something fluffy and fun.

Now, my goal isn't to rebuke
the whole room either.

My goal, Jesse, is to get you to think.

It's the one thing that we've
literally not done lately.

Because we have experienced and
engaged in stuff that if you really

thought about it, made no sense.

So why did I do that?

But because man's tradition, the
influence of the populace, the

influence of the masses, is what gets
you to be subjective to how you think.

You know what I'm saying?

That, for me, I can't do this.

And the biggest, the biggest,
um, uh, example of that, In most

recent years was this COVID thing.

Grayson: Oh man.

Jesse: You, you're not gonna, I wasn't
buying none of that bulljigging at all.

I don't care what they said.

Now, again, I never knocked
anybody that bought into it.

I never knocked anybody who had to,
to do what they need to do to survive,

because there were people that had
to make choices with their life.

You lose your job if you don't
do this, or you lose your

livelihood if you don't do this.

You're the only breadwinner.

Look, you gotta do what you gotta do.

But for me?

It didn't make sense.

That's all.

Now, if I'm gonna, if I'm going to
be subject to a conspiracy, Jesse,

Jesus coming from heaven, dying on the
cross and raising on the third day,

I'm gonna go with that conspiracy.

If I'm gonna be a conspiracy theorist,
I'm gonna go with that conspiracy.

Then the other one's y'all
the manufacturer, right?

When it comes down to it, because
none of it made sense to me, right?

Grayson: Me too.

Jesse: Especially when it came down to
how the people of God treated now, don't

get me wrong, here's what did make sense
to me, Jesse, that pastors, for a large

part, were reluctant to speak about it
because the risk of losing their 501c3

designation was a real, was a real thing.

Grayson: Mm.

Jesse: Even our churches
are governmentally run.

You're a 501c3.

Who said you have to be?

You don't have to be.

You don't.

Grayson: I'm with you.

Jesse: But because, but because the model
works and the donations are tax free,

you can actually operate a business with
very few restrictions except X, Y, and Z.

Grayson: Mm hmm.

Jesse: Because to me, if you are like
Paul, Paul had a career, Paul was a tent

maker, Paul had his own money, even now,
even though people sold into him, Paul

would have done ministry just the same.

Grayson: Right.

Jesse: We have the wrong model for it.

Everybody can just ordain themselves
an apostle or bishop when they

feel like it and start a church.

I'm not knocking any of them.

I'm not saying they're not anointed.

That's not the point.

The point is to me, not only the
point is, is that we really have no

protocol to follow except the Bible.

And we're not doing that
the way that we should.

Grayson: Mm hmm.

Jesse: So we can't get the
full essence of the gospel.

So we become, we become sect driven.

I want to be about deliverance.

I want to be about spirituality.

I want to be, and we find a group that
kind of fits what's comfortable for us.

I told, I told a group the other
day, Jesse, I said, You can't tell

me your passion is to be an usher.

You can't do that.

You can't tell me passion.

You can't tell me that.

But we find, here's what we do.

We find somewhere in church that
we can do ministry comfortably.

Grayson: Mm.

Jesse: We find an area that I
can do this without anything.

Well, ministry should be the challenge you
because the gospel should challenge you.

Grayson: ministry should be allowing
the Holy Spirit to, live through you

instead of you trying to just fit
into what people say you should do.

Jesse: correct.

Well, here's what's funny to me, Jesse, is
that when you join a church and they give

you a spiritual gifts assessment, it's
ironic to me always that my spiritual gift

fits what the church needs at that moment.

You know what I'm saying?

Grayson: Yeah.

Jesse: And again, again, I'm not,
this isn't me knocking church.

This is me truly having a step back
and understanding of stuff I can see.

Grayson: Mm

Jesse: church shouldn't be predictable.

And it is, for the most part, nowadays.

It shouldn't be predictable.

But I can go to different cities
and go into a different church that

falls under a certain denomination
or a certain group and there's a

certain order of service I can expect.

Right?

Grayson: hmm.

Like McDonald's.

Jesse: Absolutely.

So when you have large organizations
now that are actually business fine

church, I can go to one church that
has those three initials in one state,

and I can go to another church that has
those three initials in another state.

And why is the music almost the same?

And why is the way you
do it almost the same?

Why does it, don't tell me God is in that.

We're all different.

There's no way it should look the same.

But it does.

Why?

Because people are more
apt to be involved.

If it's familiar, they're more and
like, they're more likely to be

involved if it's comfortable, right?

So Jesse, if you grew up, uh, in a,
in a, in a Pentecostal environment, if

ain't nobody falling out during church,
if ain't nobody running around the

building, if ain't nobody casting out
demons, you say it ain't church, right?

Grayson: Right.

Jesse: You know what I'm saying?

Because that's what church is.

And if that, those elements aren't there,
it's like, well, this ain't church.

Or if you're a different way, if
none of those things exist and

somebody starts doing it, it's like,
whoa, that ain't church at all.

Why, why?

That's kind of where we are
because we've given church labels.

Because we talk about what's not
church, we don't say what's not God.

We don't say what's not, we say what's
not church, because we label it.

And so I think for me now, um, as I,
as I Find my true place in my passion,

which is my heart has always been
for people, is to truly realize that

those four things I said confront,
challenge, confront, convict, and, uh,

challenge, confront, convert, and have
compassion are all the things that I

want to do, you know, so there's so
many things that are facing us today.

I don't think many people here know how to
deal with somebody who may be transgender.

Or maybe in a different gay
or homosexual lifestyle.

They know how to treat
him with the gospel.

They know how to tell him it's not right.

But how do you really minister to him?

How do you share the light?

How do you show that?

And I believe that's not something
that we're taught from pulpits.

I believe the part of us being able
to disciple is to know how, again, to

equip the saints to work in ministry.

Here's what's going on.

How would you deal with this?

How would you deal with this?

How do you answer this?

That's not what we get.

We get rah rah sessions and motivational
messages and we go out here and

we fight and we lose the battle of
being a light because our light's

off when it comes to other people.

We don't know how to deal with them.

Grayson: Mm.

Jesse: I think that for me, I believe that
that's part of my, my passionate pursuit.

And I think in a world of, that we live
in today, Jesse, we're supposed to be

creating leaders, yet the only thing we
measured by is how many followers we have.

Grayson: Well, everything that you've
said is it seems to me like you

are into discipleship or a lot of
different levels, because Jesus said,

make disciples, you know, and that's
what we're supposed to be doing.

And we can't do it with it.

Like you said, you know, just, Fluffy
sermons or, or topical sermons.

You know, it's about relationship.

And, uh,

Jesse: person that desires relationship
and understands relationship

in order to have relationship,

Grayson: Mm

Jesse: I think that when you
have a desire to do that and it's

different from the world, it's
really, it's really challenging.

I mean, it's for people who really
want to serve God, they find themselves

alone a lot because mainstream
messaging doesn't fit, right?

I can't do that.

So it's, I'm not going to be
as exciting or inviting as

someone who is entertaining.

You know, that's just the way it is.

So I, that's, that's been the, that's
been the biggest battle with moving

forward in the things that you do is
if you look at what's there, you feel

like you're losing ground, right.

Or you feel like you have
to change what you do.

You know, you have to become
what they are, and I think that

I'm never going to do that.

So I think that, um, your passionate
pursuit of where you are and what

you want in life and really know
how much God has done for you.

Yeah.

You talk about your podcast and
the messaging that you want to

leave with people is, you know,
how God has changed your life.

And I think that for me, Jesse,
there was some ideologies that.

I believe were elements of the
church that I just didn't agree with.

I think for me, having the boldness enough
to stand in a space that I'm going to

speak my truth, you know, and it doesn't,
it doesn't matter to me how you get it.

I was okay with speaking my
truth when it came to COVID.

I was okay to speak my truth
when it came to politics.

There's no politics in the Bible,
so why am I even entertaining it?

Grayson: mm hmm,

Jesse: And there's so many things we feel
like we have to take sides on, right?

When we talk about social injustice
and we talk about race, I'm like,

why are we still talking about it?

I mean, I don't, I don't, you're
not going to get me down, pulled

down that rabbit hole, because
there's no, there's no reason.

Because if the Bible is my foundation,
then God has no respect to a person.

I don't care what society's done,
God has no respect to a person.

Uh, so that, that for me is for
a lot of people is a different

message and I'm okay with that.

But there are more people that
don't subscribe to that than do,

yet their voices are sequestered
and squandered because they don't

really feel like they have a voice.

And I think when you truly
disciple people, that's the case.

If you look at the Sermon on the
Mount, Jesus only talked to the 12.

It was the crowd that came and listened.

He took the 12 of them away.

You know, I want to talk to you 12
and you go do what you need to do,

but everybody else came to hear that.

And Jesus spoke in parables.

He said, because the things of the kingdom
are too complex for you to understand.

The accountability to really be a
disciple of Christ is way over the heads

of most people when it comes down to it.

Even the elements of it.

I mean, Jesse, come on now.

What human being is ready to forgive
seven times seven, you know what I mean?

But that's the way it's supposed to be.

Right?

So the things that a kingdom are
hard as when it comes down to it.

And ultimately, that's
where we have to be.

We have to decide if that's
what we're going to follow.

If we're going to be kingdom people,
then we've got to do things that

don't look like everybody else.

Grayson: mm hmm,

Jesse: And I think that's the biggest
challenge because we've lived in a

world that, um, acknowledgement is And
scrutiny are all a part of how we do.

We live in a comparison world and
we're so worried about being compared

to other people or what it's going
to look like to somebody else that we

can't do what we're supposed to do.

And I just want to encourage people that
there is a life with Christ, that you

can be the person that you want to be.

Uh, you don't have to line up to social
norms and, and be a part of that.

You need to remove the emotion of most of
your decision making and really become.

What you need to become for other people.

And I think that's where, you know, I am.

So I'm relegated to that.

I'm okay with that.

And I'm going to keep doing that.

Grayson: mm hmm.

Well, you know, Jesus's says, I
only say what I hear the Father say.

I only do what I see the Father do.

to me, that's where we
should be as disciples.

We should be so closely aligned with,
with Him, abiding in Him, that all of

these other distractions, you know, like
all these things we just talked about.

are irrelevant, really, because
that's, we're not, we're only here

to please him and not, people.

Jesse: Absolutely.

And I think, and I think that's
again, Mark seven and 13, the

tradition of man says, please
man, first, not God, that's what

Grayson: hmm.

Jesse: says.

Get, get in good graces with man.

Grayson: Mm

Jesse: That's, that's what we believe.

And that's what we tend to do.

The affirmation, the validation
from men is more important than

affirmation and validation from God.

Right.

And I think.

I think that's where people come to a
complete challenge and where they are,

but I think that, you know, Jesse,
if you continue to put out the, the

information that you're putting out
and, and have people on your show that

really believe in that way, uh, if
we'll begin to work together and get

the right messaging to the right places.

Uh, I think that we, we definitely will
make the impactful difference that we need

to make, but we have to be okay with that.

And we have to be okay with what we know
we believe, but we have to be studious

enough and intentional enough to, to study
to show that self approval in the God.

A workman need not be ashamed,
rightly divine, the word of truth.

That's what we have to do.

Grayson: Well, you know, since you,
said that, I think we ought to shift

gears a little bit here because you
are doing what you're talking about.

you are so busy with a
lot of different things.

I would like for you to Take some time
to tell about your coaching and your

books and all the different things
that you're involved in, because even

though it may not be church, you're
building disciples in every area of

your life, at least from what I see.

And I'd like to, I'd
like to hear about that.

Jesse: Absolutely.

Yes.

I think that what, what got on my side
of my heart years ago was men and the,

uh, the displacement of men in society.

Uh, men have been emasculated,
men have been reduced.

The feminist movement truly was never
about women, it was always about

destroying the nuclear family, and you
can't do that unless you destroy the man.

So I think that my whole purpose
is, is to make men aware of who they

really are, um, equip them and empower
them to reestablish themselves as who

they are, and move them to a closer
relationship with what will sustain them.

When it comes down to it.

So, um, I work with men
healing, the hurt men hide.

I work with them.

Um, that's a piece of it.

I have a clothing line called
manicure present your best self.

So it's all about positive motivational
where the guys can literally

signify a man of destiny messaging.

So it's just a reminder
when it comes to it.

I think that any takeaway that you can
have from an experience is important.

Um, that is truly my heart.

My heart is just to
see people differently.

So I've done coaching
at the executive level.

I've done coaching it obviously in
the sports realm, but my heart now

is really coaching people who are
working through finding who they are.

Um, getting them to
challenge their old mindsets.

Um, my podcast is called GM,
which is my initials talking BS.

And talking BS is, uh, belief systems.

It's breaking structures.

It's building synergy.

And anything that you can put a
B and an S to that's positive,

that's why I want to talk.

So it's GM talking BS.

And people will see it.

Talking BS, well they, they're
gonna, it is what it is.

And it, but it isn't.

But I think that's me.

So it's about me really talking BS.

And talking about what your BS is.

And you can use the vernacular
because that's what it is.

It's a really bull, you know what,
but it's your belief systems.

It's breaking structures, it's
building synergy, it's being

soulful, you know, it's your bank
statements, it's your stewardship,

it's everything when you're talking BS.

And that's, that's, that
for me is where it is.

So I think, um, my whole purpose in
messaging has become refined to that.

To GM talking BS.

And I want to, I want
to be, uh, evangelistic.

So to speak in that messaging and just be
able to go and empathetically challenge

people when it comes to it So I do it on
a personal level one on one with coaching.

I've been fortunate enough to do it
in corporations And be able to share

in there in a unique, uh, in a unique
way, but I'm not afraid to do it.

I think that, um, corporate
America doesn't bother me.

It doesn't fear me.

I'm not going to hold my tongue.

So I said, I'm, I'm here
to not be asked back.

I'm going to say probably what
you all don't agree with that is

politically correct in your workplace.

Well, I don't work here, so
I be politically correct.

Um, that's just, that's
just how I feel about it.

But I believe that any opportunity I get.

To, um, talk to, challenge,
change, have a discussion with.

I am passionate about seeing people
be the best version of themselves,

but especially men, especially men.

and I think that we bought into
some narratives emotionally

that don't serve us.

And those need to be re re evaluated,
adjusted, and shifted so that we can

be the best version of ourselves.

Grayson: what kind of narratives that
we've bought into that we need to discard?

Jesse: I think that
men not being, leaders.

I think men being providers and
what that entails, I think provision

is not necessarily about money.

It's about a structure.

It's about a place where
everybody can grow.

I think, again, there's, there's
words and, and phrase and ideologies

that have been used that limit men.

I've always said that labels limit.

When you're talking about being
a provider, are you providing

a healthy place for people
to grow, your spouse to grow?

Not necessarily about
who makes the most money.

If you did, you reduced the provision that
he's providing you all the way around,

then you're missing what provision is.

But because we reduced it to just
money and um, what you can get

from me, then you're missing what
really the value of the man is.

When it comes down to it, deal with,
economic issues, people believe that

they're not supposed to have, it's
historically been, obvious that there

have been, groups of people that may
not have been as fortunate as others.

If we believe in the gospel, that
shouldn't matter, but a lot of,

but a lot of times we buy into it.

And again, fair is a four
letter word that begins with F.

It's never going to be fair
when it comes down to it.

And even when you look at the
parable of the sower, Jesse.

The parable says at the end that,
and some fell on good ground, right?

Some of the seed fell on good ground.

But what I noticed about that part
of that, uh, parable is the fact that

the seed that fell on good ground,
it says some produce 30, some produce

60, and some produce a hundred.

So Jesse, even when everything
is quote unquote equal.

Some people are still
going to only produce 30.

Some people are still only produce
60 and some people don't produce on.

It's never going to be equal anyway.

So I think a lot of the messaging
that we want to share to reduce us.

And again, make excuses.

That's why I'm about bill.

So no excuses.

They exist today, right?

I don't believe there's anything in
personal color can't do in the world.

But yet there's a belief
system that they can't.

The excuses that we make, whether they
be politically, socially, economically,

seem to be greater than what's in you.

And the Bible says, greater is he that's
in you, that's he that's in the world.

One of my favorite, one of my favorite
verses of scripture is Ephesians 3 and 20.

None to him that is able to do
exceedingly and abundantly above

all who can ask of thing according
to the power that worketh in him.

And you right that God gave you a
Deuteronomy talks about giving you the

ability to obtain wealth and wealth
doesn't necessarily means money.

It means wealth of information, wealth
of knowledge, wealth of experience.

You know, I think we reduce that messaging
to just money, but it's not just money.

It's being as being
wealthy all the way around.

So I think those
narratives, those mantras.

Um, those belief systems are where
we have to really shift and we have

to call people on where they are.

You know, there's certain thing in the
church that just doesn't serve us well.

Um, there's certain, there's certain
egos in the church that literally

take the fact that people don't know
their word and they use the word

manipulatively to get what they want.

So I think we have to, the
Bible talks about a high time

that we wake up out of sleep.

We got to see what's happening.

Grayson: you mentioned the Parable
of the Solar and I think, the whole

process of discipleship is to, to
help people become that good ground

Because it's, it is not the seed,
the seed's the same for everybody.

It's the ground that makes the difference.

So it's up to us to become good soil

Jesse: and everybody's not
gonna produce a hundred.

Some are gonna produce early,
some produce produce 60.

The problem is we try to make the thirties
produce 60 and they get frustrated.

Grayson: Mmm.

Jesse: A hundred.

They get frustrated.

What's for you is for you?

If 60 is your best, gimme your best.

But what we want is your
best to be what we want.

Grayson: Mm.

Jesse: we're, we're ignoring what
it is that you're supposed to be

doing or you're capable of doing
at this point in time in your life.

Let people be where they are.

We, we've said it before,
bloom, where you're planet.

where you have, what, what can
you yield from where you are?

Because there may be some more of
your ground that needs to be tilled.

There may be some more of your
ground that needs to be watered

before you can produce more.

Grayson: Mm hmm.

Jesse: You know what I mean?

But most of our evaluation is based
on what someone else needs from us.

Not what we need from
ourselves or for ourselves.

Grayson: Yeah.

Well, tell people where they can, get
more of you, websites, books, podcast,

Jesse: Yeah, everything is on my website.

GM talking BS dot com.

Grayson: gmtalkingbs.

com

Jesse: Everything is there.

My pod, my daily podcast,
the link is right there.

Um, consultations, uh, is,
uh, scheduling is right there.

Um, my books to order them.

Everything is right there.

Uh, all the things that we're doing.

Uh, now it's all up there.

So everything can be gotten
at GM talking BS dot com.

Grayson: Well, thank you for that.

We're, we are about out of time, if you
have one piece of advice that you could

pass on to a young man or a young woman
out there that could change their lives.

What would that be?

Jesse: I think I'm going
to give you two answers.

because I want to make sure we stay
true to having God as the center of

our lives and Jesus being the focus.

But when I talk to people about
their lives, And these both

things are spiritual as well.

if someone wanted to change their
life right now, and they wanted

to have an immediate impact,
they could do it in this fashion.

Number one is have no emotional
attachment to any outcome.

And number two is no time
frame for things to happen.

Romans 8 and 28 is true.

That all things work together for the
good, for them that love God and those

that are called according to his purpose.

Then, there's no reason for you to be
emotionally attached to any outcome.

It's all working together for your good.

As a matter of fact, I would contend
that when you are living that

way, there are no wrong decisions.

I think we live in a world, Jesse,
where outcomes are what we are

looking for, and we tend to try to
manipulate and control the outcome.

Well, Romans 8 and 28 said that all
things work together for your good anyway,

so have no emotional attachment to it.

When you get an emotional attachment
to something, now you become a person.

The one who's driving the train.

Well, the second part of that is
no timeframe for things to happen.

Jesse, let me ask you something.

When has God ever worked
on your timeframe?

Grayson: Never.

Jesse: So when we take those things off
the table and we change those things, we

get to walk in a more spiritual place.

And I think that right there is what
you actually can do to shift where

you are right now, anybody that if
you learn to not be emotional about

outcomes, and trust that God is leading
you and take time frames off the table.

You allow him to do his work.

You allow him to work with you, grow
you, change you so that you can be the

good brown you talked about, Jesse.

So if I take decision making off
the table and stop worrying about

outcomes now, I'm leaving the outcome
to God That's a spiritual thing.

Here's what I have to do is a
spiritual thing I have to do if I

remove the time frames Now, I'm not
playing God, I'm allowing God to work.

So there's a natural thing I have
to do, like 1 Corinthians 15, 46,

says first natural, then spiritual.

And that first description is
talking about exegetically the

first Adam and the second Adam.

But there's a rhema, there's
a present day truth to that.

And I think that's where we have to
get to, understanding that, and that's

why I believe that if somebody's able
to do that, I'm not saying it's easy,

nothing about following God is easy.

But if you're able to do that,
then you can literally change

your life and have and begin to
have a life that you want to have,

Grayson: Yeah.

Well, anything else you want to add?

Jesse: I just want to say thank
you for allowing me to be a

part of what you're doing.

I wish you all the success.

And you see your heart is about Christ.

I can tell that.

And, um, don't worry about it.

Focus on the outcomes.

Just keep doing what you do.

Don't worry about anything.

Just keep doing what it is that you do.

And, um, I just appreciate an atmosphere
and an opportunity to be able to

share what God has in my heart.

And I hope that whoever watches this,
whether it's one or a million, that

you get something from it and it can
impact you and get you to change.

Grayson: Thank you so much for being here.

This has been a real blessing.

Would you, would you
pray for our listeners?

Jesse: Absolutely.

Absolutely.

Father God, we thank you for this
opportunity to be in your presence.

We thank you for the fruit that
this is going to yield, Father God.

Father God, continue to touch the
hand of Jesse Dukes, Father God,

lift him up, raise him, Father God.

You know your work with him is not
done yet because he's still here.

Everybody watching this program right
now, Father God, I pray that they

deepen their relationship with you.

They, Matthew 6 and 33, and they
seek ye first the kingdom of

God and his righteousness and
everything will be added unto them.

Make that not just a declaration,
but a belief, Father God.

So we pray, healing, love, understanding
to everyone that watches this.

Father God, prosper them and
give them what they needed.

Have them trust and rely on you
for everything in their lives.

And we'll always give you the praise
and honor and glory in Jesus name.

Amen.

Grayson: Amen.

Cailin: We hope you've been
blessed by today's story.

if you've heard something that you think
could help someone you know, please share

it using the link in the show notes.

Also, if you will give Faith and Purpose a
positive review on your podcast platform,

you could help more people find it.

You will probably never know how
that small effort can make a big

difference in someone's life,
but our Heavenly Father knows.

Speaking of sharing, if you know a Jesus
follower with a story to tell, please send

them a link to Faith and Purpose Podcast.

It may encourage them to tell their story.

That person may even be you.

Our only criteria is
that Jesus be glorified.

Most Christians don't share their
faith because they mistakenly think

their story is not interesting enough,
or that it's self centered to talk

about themselves, or that they are not
competent to explain the gospel correctly.

But none of that is relevant.

If Jesus has changed your
life, you have a story to tell.

No one has a story like yours, and you
may be the only one who can reach someone

else through telling your experience.

A story is just that, a true account
of your own experience, and no one

can disagree with your experience.

It's not about theology, and it's not
about how interesting or special you are.

It's all about Jesus.

So when you're ready to tell how Jesus
has impacted your life, you can let Jesse

know at his ministry website, jesseduke.

net.

There you can download guidelines
that will make it easy to

prepare to tell your story.

Thank you for listening today and Shalom.