Eric Linden
Speaker: Welcome everyone to
Faith and Purpose podcast.
Each episode of this podcast contains the
personal testimony of an ordinary person
transformed by an extraordinary God.
My name is Kaylin and I'm
here to introduce this podcast
for my friend Jesse Duke.
Jesse is a husband, father, author,
life recovery guide, lay counselor,
and small group leader, but his
most important role is disciple.
As a disciple of Jesus.
Jesse created this podcast to help other
believers tell their faith stories.
We'll be hearing the personal
testimonies of all sorts of people
who have one thing in common,
Jesus has transformed their lives.
Jesus used parables because he created
us to learn best through story.
And as we listen to how God has worked
in others lives, we find encouragement
and inspiration for our own faith walk.
Whether you are already a believer or
just a curious seeker, we believe that
as you listen to these stories, you will
be encouraged on your own faith journey.
We are sure that God can speak to you
through one of these episodes and that you
will see that our Heavenly Father truly
works all things together for our good.
When we simply love and trust him.
If you are currently going through a
trial, we believe that you will come
to see that your troubles, heartbreaks,
and failures are not gravestones, but
stepping stones into new life in Christ.
Here's Jesse with today's guest.
MacBook Air Microphone-1: Welcome
everybody to faith and purpose podcast.
Today I had my friend, Eric
Linden here to tell his story.
And how you doing today, Eric?
I am blessed to be here with you, Jesse.
we've prayed.
And we've prepared.
So let's just see what the
Lord has to say through you.
All right.
I was born in Decatur, Alabama.
In 1962.
And in 1966, my family was highlighted
in the Decatur daily newspaper with a
father's day photo of me, my mom, my
older sister, all surrounding my dad
and I Dylan image of a happy family.
Everyone smiling.
If only that image would last.
By the time I turned six,
my parents were divorced.
During a routine custody weekend
with my dad, my sister and
I were taken to Birmingham.
Where we ended up spending
the next three months.
At the end of that time, I had
been introduced to a woman who
would become my stepmother.
And two young girls who
would be my new step sisters.
I didn't see my mother
again for six years.
My father kept moving a surround
begin in the California bay area
over 2000 miles from my home.
I attended three different first grades is
my father attempted to hide us kids from
anyone who might be trying to find us.
From there.
I lift the typical elementary
school kids live Cub Scouts,
little league baseball, but.
There was something lurking.
Early on in this time, I was suffering
from terror attacks at night.
I woke up in fear and fright.
I heard noises and was convinced
that there was someone in
the house looking for me.
I woke up at times, literally tingling
with numbness shaken by my nightmares.
At school, I was distracted.
My parents were told that it would take a
two by four to get my attention in class.
At home.
I walked in fear of upsetting
my stepmother, who would use the
metal spatula on my backside.
If I happened to interrupt
her daily nap or.
Somehow disappoint my father.
I lived with that pit of your stomach
ache through most of my childhood.
After four years of this new
family, my father's relationship
with his second wife decade.
During the stressful time I asked
my father, if I could call my mom.
Whom I hadn't either seen or
spoken to in roughly five years.
My father hit me that night.
I had a bruise over my eye for months.
As the marriage spiral that got loud.
One night, my sisters and I huddled
in a room away from our shouting
parents and we called the police to
come and end the chaos of the night.
Soon thereafter, my
father was divorced again.
That's my father's world crumbled.
He decided against being
a father any longer.
He sent his 12 year old
son back to Alabama.
And into the arms of his mother
and his 17 year old daughter
was left to fend for herself.
Life, however, didn't
improve much back into cater.
My mom had married a guy
she'd met in the bar.
second marriage for each of them,
meaning I inherited another step
sister and two step brothers.
Fortunately, my new stepfather
didn't have custody, but every
other weekend, our house got
crowded with three new inhabitants.
Another thing that was different
was that my mother had a job.
She worked at the local hospital
and I became a latchkey kid.
My stepfather was a mess.
He suffered from
depression and alcoholism.
There were multiple times when he was away
for a few weeks or months for treatment.
Almost two years into this life
I inherited in you half brother.
We've got a little complicated because
my mother's alcoholism adversely
affected her his health at birth.
I pretty much coasted through life
because I was not the focus of either
parent and my father ignored me
focused on his third wifi, My mother
and I attended the same church we
had attended when I was much younger.
I enjoyed singing in the children's
choir and learning how to read music.
Around two years after moving back home.
My mother's marriage was on the rocks.
My stepfather had become
abusive to both of us.
My mother took my half brother
and me to Dustin Florida.
We attended a small church, which
celebrated the working of the holy spirit.
And that was a catalyst in my
development as a young Christian.
Living on the coast.
I love being able to fish and catch crabs.
Life was really fun.
I spent every available
minute at the water.
Then my stepfather came for a visit.
Next thing.
I knew my mother was leaving for Decatur.
Leaving me alone with the associate
pastor of our church and his family.
Three months later, I finished seventh
grade and I was driven to Pensacola
and placed on a Greyhound bus for
a 12 hour ride back to Decatur.
Alone.
My mother's reunion with my
stepfather did not go well.
Within a few months, we had packed up
again and headed for a new sanctuary.
My aunt and uncle's home in Huntsville.
No more step family.
However, my half-brother
and I now had two cousins.
Adjusting to a new extended
family was difficult.
But a very loving aunt and
uncle softened, this transition.
My mother half-brother and I lived
with this family for nine months.
I attended the local high school,
but never fit in very well.
Being the new kid in town.
I had no friends gradually.
I made acquaintances and then friendships.
Back in the seventies, it was
not a badge of honor for a kid to
qualify for free meals at school.
My clothes didn't fit in either.
And I was a poor kid
in an affluent school.
I started working part-time at
a grocery store when I was 15.
I had free access to
cigarettes and adult magazines.
I learned how to make some poor choices
and there wasn't any accountability.
My mother was busy at
work and with a toddler.
And this high school kid will
have to handle things for himself.
The lady who watched my half-brother
on occasion also had a daughter
his age, every so often.
She would ask me to watch her
daughter when she needed a night out.
I didn't mind.
I found she had a stash of
marijuana and a doll magazines.
I fed my budding addictions.
Although I started high
school as an honor student.
In may of 1980, I graduated
about middle of my class.
I was not going to college.
I was not going to live at home.
My mother had remarried that April and my.
Birthday slash graduation
gift was luggage.
I got the clue.
I helped my mother move to Ohio and
then drove my 18 year old self from
there, back to Huntsville, Alabama,
and then to San Francisco to stay
with my father and his third wife.
I got a job at a radio shack
and enjoyed working there.
However, I didn't want to
become a store manager, which
is what they wanted me to do.
I ended up joining the Navy.
That was an awesome experience for me.
And what year was this?
Would've been 1980.
Okay.
I went in.
In 1981, right after my 19th birthday.
Because of my aptitude for electronics,
I qualified for an advanced training
school and early advancement.
I began to thrive in an environment
with rules and accountability.
At the end of six years, I advanced
a first class petty officer.
And funny thing in bootcamp
I've been offered in ROTC
scholarship, but I declined.
After a few more years of growing up, I
decided college would be a good idea, but
the Navy wouldn't allow me to change my
duty station, where I could attend school.
So I left after my six year enlistment.
I was stationed at Jacksonville, Florida.
I met a woman who happened
to be pregnant by her.
Ex-husband.
I was still taken with her.
And married her.
Not too many years later,
she was pregnant again.
But not by me.
We divorced.
After my Navy time, I thought I
would be going to work and making
a lot of money in the middle east.
But that effort failed.
I ended up working second
shift at a convenience store.
I was at a new low.
I nearly took my life out of desperation.
It was time for me to
re-embrace my religious life.
I found a welcoming church.
I made some friends.
It took on some responsibilities.
Grew a little spiritually.
And met the woman of my dreams.
While at this church, I had an
encounter with Christ and holy spirit.
I attended a Cursio weekend where I
was immersed in a conditional love.
My reunion with my faith did
not end many of my problems.
But it did provide a foundation
and source of support.
My messed up childhood did not
leave me with many effective
or healthy coping mechanisms.
In my new church home, I learned
more about unconditional love.
I learned how to study the Bible and
I learned that there was still quite
a bit of baggage attached to me.
Before our church priest would marry
me and my wife to be, we both spent
intensive prayer times with friends.
We were breaking the bonds of past
hurts, harms mental and physical.
I invited the beautiful woman.
I mentioned earlier to prayer
and praise meeting held at a
friend's house on a new year's Eve.
I proposed on Valentine's day.
We were married just two months later.
I was 33 years ago.
After a few years of marriage,
we struggled with infertility.
But God had a plan.
We followed the path for adoption,
completed a home study with all
the interviews and inspections and
waited for a birth mom to choose us.
Whiting and praying.
Eventually a young lady living in
the same Alabama town where I had
attended high school, picked us.
This began the seven month
journey to the birth of our son.
We were so blessed to be able
to stay with my aunt and uncle.
That's the time for the Perth approached.
And we were at the hospital
when he came into the world.
Less than a week later, the Jobson
adoption judge sealed our adoption and
we were free to return home to Florida.
The next few years were a whirlwind.
My wife was able to quit her job
and focus on being a full-time mom.
And I focused on my job
and going to night school.
Things were challenging
because my wife was the primary
breadwinner when we were married.
And it took me 10 years to
complete my four year degree.
I made up for it by completing
my masters since 16 months.
What that doesn't describe is
the burden that, that placed on
my wife being mom, stand in dad.
Caring for my mom who had
chosen to move nearby.
It was about this time that my maker
coping skills or lack thereof impacted the
health of our home and our relationship.
It was easier for me to hide
at work, pleasing my bosses,
getting raises and promotions.
Than to deal with the growing
emotional friction at home.
I started taking roles, which
caused me to travel frequently, even
overseas and for extended periods.
As our son entered the
middle school years.
He began to act out and
even challenge his mom.
Soon he was out of control.
However, my avoidance of
home life wasn't healing.
It.
It was our commitment to God
and our vows, which caused us
to seek prayer and counseling.
One time.
My wife was at breakfast with our
priest and a friend of his Glen Ellison.
Glenn and his wife, Sheila
run an organization called
the parent help center.
My wife, boohooed her way through
breakfast and the telling of our story.
A few weeks later, my wife
and I attended a parent help
center workshop over a weekend.
A couple of words about Glenn.
He's a former Marine.
He played college football for
Arkansas and then the Marine Corps.
And the Oakland Raiders.
Even in his advanced stage today,
he's still an imposing figure.
for the next four or five
years, our family was a fixture
around his organization.
Learning how to parent an impulsive child.
Learning how to love him again.
And learning how to love each other again.
This group uses a family camp scenario.
So parents can watch other parents.
Model effective parenting skills.
And see that their child can
actually demonstrate respect.
A good work ethic and
control their temper.
We embraced this lifestyle to
the point where we frequently
volunteered for family camp weekends.
We facilitated parent support
groups and became trained
facilitators in the curriculum.
One more thing about this group.
At the end of the camp weekend, children
are reunited with their parents.
In an emotional and uplifting scene.
Glenn often gives his testimony,
shares, get in Bibles and leads, many
children and adults to salvation.
Restoring peace to our home
was helpful in restoring.
Peace.
In our relationship.
And with our son.
Our son completed high school
with multiple certifications
and now lives and works.
In the DC area.
And I will have the honor to officiate
his wedding in a couple of months.
About my faith journey.
It seems, I've always known about God.
But it's only been over the last
five years ago where I've fully
embraced the idea that we're
not called to rules or ritual.
But to relationship.
The foundation that idea probably
came from being at a liturgical church
for so long, where I relied on the
priest to tell me what the Bible says.
I read the lectionary.
Every week.
So I must be getting the word of God.
A teacher, I follow reminds
her readers frequently.
How important it is that we
read the Bible for ourselves.
And to use caution when relying
on someone else's interpretation.
We need to let scripture
interpret scripture.
And not lean on man's understanding.
I have grown to be a
daily reader of his word.
This is so critical for my faith walk.
I need that daily bread.
I'm in the third year of
daily reading, in addition to
various small groups, I attend.
God is using my hunger for
his word to help feed others.
This year, I was asked by our
pastor to lead the outreach.
Our church sponsors at a local
assisted living facility.
I have the privilege to share a
monthly message of faith with these
residents, share communion with them.
And pray with them.
It's such a blessing.
And I also go there one evening a
month with a community praise band.
And that's all I was led to.
MacBook Air Microphone-2: Okay.
That's great.
Thank you for sharing all that.
And I got a few questions for you.
Not in any particular order,
but I do want to ask you.
MacBook Air Microphone-1:
when we're growing up with.
We swear.
We'll never be like our parents.
So when we have a kid, it turns out
most people do end up parenting.
Like their parents parented them.
not exactly, there's always some kind of.
Subconscious.
repeating what we learned
when we were kids going on.
And, I kinda I've experienced
that and I wonder, do you.
to experience that?
I hadn't really thought about it, but.
When I was 12 years old and shipped
back to Alabama from California.
My dad.
Wrote me maybe.
Two or three letters.
In the next five or six years.
I saw him twice when I
had gone to go visit.
My grandmother, he showed up.
I didn't have any idea.
He would be there.
And I wonder if I was mirroring that
behavior when I was sorta hiding from
my family, with my work and my travel.
In school.
When I played little league as a child.
I was literally afraid to see my dad
in the stands to see him out there
because I didn't want to disappoint him.
I knew I had to be.
As good as any other kid out there,
regardless of my skill level.
And if I disappointed him, life
was going to be difficult at home.
Fast forward to my son
playing little league.
Even though I was in night
school that weekend school.
I was still able to be one of the coaches
on this little league team for four years.
And I thoroughly enjoyed interacting with
the other coaches, interacting with him.
And.
I think I was able to share with him that.
Sports can be competitive
and they can be fun.
And you don't have to worry about
your dad coming down on you.
If you miss a fly ball.
one of the other things
I wanted to give him.
That I didn't have growing
up with some stability.
We were living in Jacksonville.
In a kind of nice area in town and
he got to play little league for.
The Ortega little league.
Group.
And because I never had the opportunity
to grow up with the same kids.
I wanted him to have that
opportunity that I had missed.
and that meant that.
Aye.
Didn't change jobs.
I worked for the same employer
for 34 years because I
didn't want to change towns.
I had offers.
I had offers to go work
in all sorts of places.
But.
It was more important that my
son had the opportunity to have.
A chance to criminal put
the same set of friends.
Yeah.
And it was a sacrifice for me.
In my work world.
But I would never change.
How I did that.
I would never chase a job out
of state or in another town.
And take my son out of that community.
it sounds like Your experience of moving
from one house to another from one.
Family situation to another.
you did.
You wanted to make sure that
nothing like that happened.
By the time I was 18,
I had moved 18 times.
And how many times did your son.
Twice.
Yeah.
Echo at six.
That worked out and God was
so good through all of that.
Life will never be
perfect on this side of.
Heaven.
But God.
Is so faithful that he gave us.
Friends and relationships.
And when we didn't have the answers,
God puts somebody in our path.
Growing up with a rebellious
teenager was tough.
And he was so good at playing
one parent against the other.
Yeah.
And because of my upbringing and my
wife's upbringing, We didn't know
how to play from the same playbook,
much less the same page sometimes.
And.
Our son ate our lunch.
When we attended that.
Parent help center weekend conference.
My wife and I weren't talking.
But we went there for him.
Because we knew that we had to
get something straight and our
relationship with him, if he was
gonna have any chance for success.
And what Glen and Sheila
told us that night was.
We have to get to the point
where we're doing daily
displays of love and affection.
Positive strokes and consistency.
Those are the three legs of the stool
that they talk about in that platform.
I was not at a point in my life where
I could tell my son I'd love to.
I was hurting so badly.
Yeah, I was angry at him.
I was angry at my wife.
I was angry at everything.
And had it not been for Glenn and Sheila.
And the parents who had been through
that lifestyle change before we had.
Our marriage wouldn't have survived.
I don't think Kendall would have survived.
I think he would've gone
off the deep end and.
Explored the areas of.
Situations it would not have.
Worked out very well for him.
But.
Because we stayed in that
lifestyle for many years, Kendall
had immediate accountability.
If he didn't earn his checks for.
Showing respect work ethic.
If he didn't earn enough checks,
he earned a trip back to camp.
And so there was just this
continuous reinforcement of
these are our house rules.
You're free to choose not to
do it, but you're not free
to choose the consequences.
Right.
Being able to.
Course correct.
Our relationship with my wife.
Of course, correct.
Our son.
We were able then to.
Help other parents.
And so I have.
Hosted.
Parent support groups every week
for years in that community.
we're not involved anymore.
We were on the board of
directors for seven years.
we supported them financially.
And it is.
Something that literally changed our lives
MacBook Air Microphone-3: Well, it's
funny that you mentioned Glenn Ellison.
When you've heard him at the
national day of prayer here on may.
Island.
he spoke this year and it reminded
me that my friend Mike self.
Who's on one of the earlier
episodes of this podcast.
Had given me his name and number and said,
you gotta get this guy on the podcast
and I've been putting it off because.
He just seemed like such a busy guy.
You know, and I know he's got.
A really great program.
MacBook Air Microphone-4: So now that
you've praised him so highly, I've
just got to get him on the podcast.
And I'm going to do.
MacBook Air Microphone-1: He is a busy
guy, but he's got a heart for God, a
heart for families, a heart for kids.
Honestly, when I met him.
I was scared to death of him.
that Friday night we're
in this church classroom.
And.
He's telling us how screwed up we are
as parents and we're not doing it right.
And I'm here to teach you
how you're going to do it.
Yes, sir.
Mr sir.
The Marine came out.
But he is a close dear friend of mine now.
Yeah.
And I couldn't say that
if I didn't trust him.
I trusted him with my wife.
I trusted him with my son.
I trusted him with our family.
And.
God worked on mighty work through him.
MacBook Air Microphone-5: Yeah.
You know,
We just don't.
There is no class.
On parenting, you know, that we can
take Before we have kids and there
ought to be, you know, I'm thinking.
Man.
I bet you every couple has to relearn.
What.
Billions of people have had to
learn and raising kids over.
Over the centuries.
And it just, it doesn't
need to be that way.
I mean.
If, uh, Newly married couple.
Or even before they're married,
if they could take some kind
of curriculum, like Glen's.
that would.
Probably solve a lot of
the troubles in this world.
I know I made plenty of
mistakes as a parent thinking
I was doing the right thing.
And my wife, of course, she was
thanking, Sheila's doing the right thing.
And then we just kinda.
Did the best we could and,
that's all, most people do.
MacBook Air Microphone-6: But,
you know, like, like we have.
Churches have like premarital counseling.
That's always great.
I think it'd be great if it was.
Pre-child counseling and training
To get both parents on the same
page and agreeing to the same.
Way to, to raise a child.
And rather than just stumbling
through it and fighting over it.
when the child.
Comes along and.
And starts to.
Act out in natural ways,
MacBook Air Microphone-7: And
there probably is something like
that, but I'm unaware of it.
Anyway, I guess we all just think we
know what we're doing, but finding out
the hard way that would really dumb.
MacBook Air Microphone-5: And
so I think it would be really
helpful if we had some kind of.
Pre child.
training available before
we have children anywhere.
That's just my opinion.
MacBook Air Microphone-1:
What do you think about.
Every time.
Our son could drive a wedge between us.
He knew we won.
Yeah.
So if I asked if he asked me for
something and I didn't give him the
answer he want, he'd go ask his mom.
We fell into that trap for so long.
Yeah, until we were conditioned
to say, what did your mother say?
Or what did your father say?
Because then he would either
have to tell the truth or lie.
And if he's telling the truth, he's
violating one of the house rules.
If he's telling a lie is.
Violated one of the house rules.
You can choose what you want to
do, but you're not choosing to
free to choose the consequence.
And.
Once that became part of our vocabulary.
Yeah, things changed.
And Glenn's program told you that?
vocabulary.
Yeah.
Yeah.
there's a movie about that camp.
It's called camp success.
It's available on Amazon.
it streams on several
different platforms.
Do you listeners to this podcast?
Are we going to be looking for that?
Camp success on Amazon prime.
Okay.
Aye.
Actually went out to audition
for a role in that movie.
But I was also, I was already
cast in a play in Fernandina
at the community theater.
And so since I couldn't stay long enough,
I wasn't able to get the audition.
But Glen did have me sit
down in front of the camera.
After they had wrapped up recording.
And.
Gave me some time on camera to
talk about how that lifestyle
change effected our family.
so I'm the last snippet in that movie?
So after the credits roll, you'll see me.
Okay.
I'm going to look for you.
let me ask you about.
You started applying scripture.
A few years ago, It became
more important to you and.
How did that come about and how
do you, how did you implement it?
I had read the Bible and Ben
and part of small groups as
a young adult and growing up.
But.
It wasn't.
Until for four or five years ago that
I really began to see a change in all.
The reason I'm convinced that happened.
It's because.
At our current church.
At the end of every service.
We say a prayer.
Everybody's encouraged to say this
prayer along with new believers or
somebody who's coming to faith in.
In the service.
And it's asking the holy spirit.
To keep you a hunger for his word.
If you have a hard time cracking
your Bible open on a daily basis.
Ask, and it will be given to you.
I have a new found hunger for his word.
There is not a day in at least
the last year and a half.
I have not picked up his
word every single day.
It's part of a structured Bible study.
We read through the Bible every year.
I'd done a different one
before this platform.
But.
He is so faithful.
his word cannot go forth.
Without creating something good.
And so the more I spend time in
his word, the more my hunger grows.
I have read more books.
Alright, long time ago.
It used to be said.
If fuchsia show somebody your checkbook
they'll know what's important to you.
Checkbooks are passe these days.
Yeah.
You will look at my library.
You'll see.
What's important to me, hi.
I become a full gracious reader.
I read into, so in addition to
reading our Bible, as we've done a
revelation study earlier this year.
That was quite a bit of reading because
you read the same chapter a couple
of times before he feel like he got
an idea of what's going on in it.
But.
God is continuing to
reveal himself in his word.
And in the words of others in a way
that I can understand it's given me a
new heart for him, a new heart for his
word, and you understanding of his word.
And three years ago.
Coming up on four years ago.
Now, when.
I was in Jerusalem.
I saw this neat little t-shirt that
had similar to what's on your delete.
It had the star of David.
The menorah and the fish.
And it said Romans 11, 17.
And I'm thinking what's all that about.
Not read this before.
But if you read Romans 11, 17 now,
As a child of God, you begin to
see, this is just one more time
that God is telling you that you
have been grafted into his family.
You read it and numbers,
you read it and Deuteronomy.
he talks about the Sojourner.
Who's going with you.
That's who we are now.
We are the Sojourner going with him.
With his people.
MacBook Air Microphone-8:
Yeah, let me read that.
I love, let me just,
Back up to, uh, verse.
16.
Romans 11, 16, and 17 and 18.
All right.
Okay.
This is from the new living translation.
And since Abraham and the other
patriarchs were holy, their
descendants will also be holy.
Just as the entire batch of
dove is holy because the portion
given as an offering as holy.
For if the roots of the tree are
holy, the branches will be too.
But some of these branches from
Abraham's tree, some of the people
of Israel have been broken off.
And you Gentiles.
Who were branches from a wild
olive tree have been grafted in.
So now you also received the blessing.
God had promised Abraham and his children.
Sharing and the rich nourishment from
the root of God's special olive tree.
But you must not brag about
being grafted in to replace the
branches that were broken on.
You're just a branch, not the root.
MacBook Air Microphone-1: and
why do we need the root that's,
where we're nourished from?
So we are grafted in to that olive
tree and we get the rich nourishment.
From Abraham, Isaac, Jacob.
Those are our grandparents.
We as believers.
Don't have to become Jewish to
embrace our Jewish ancestry.
And.
It is so cool that when I was working
in Israel, back in 2019, I had picked
up enough Hebrew words to where I
could quote something from one of
the songs, because I had learned it
through one of the songs I listened to.
And I'm talking to one of my good Jewish
friends who is a believer, but not.
Active in his faith.
He grew up in synagogue in temple.
But he doesn't practice his faith.
And I told them Yehuda.
And I said it to him in Hebrew.
And I said all will come and bow
before the Lord, our God focus.
He is greatly to be praised.
I said it in Hebrew to him and he just,
his eyes just playing a bit, almost like.
You said that so well, and it's
all about that wild olive tree
being grafted in, we are called
to make them jealous by our faith.
Oh yeah.
And if I can speak to
them, quoting fair Bible.
Yeah.
As to why I believe in.
The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.
Maybe I can get a war a way to help
them to understand that your shoe a.
Is Isaiah 53.
Personified.
And.
Before I retired.
I'm on these conference calls with guys
in Israel and before everybody else is
on the call, I might have a conversation
with one of the two of the guys.
And I'll ask him if I can pray for him.
I'll tell him what's going on.
I'll tell him where my faith comes from.
And it's a boldness that
I never had in me before.
Would you read the part of Isaiah?
The three that you are referring
to is for the listener.
I'm going to read a bunch of it.
Who has believed our message.
To whom has the Lord
revealed his powerful arm.
My servant grew up in the Lord's presence.
Like a tender green shoot,
like a root in dry ground.
There was nothing beautiful or
majestic about his appearance,
nothing to attract us to him.
He was despised and rejected.
How did the Pharisees treat him?
A man of sorrows acquainted
with deepest grief.
who became sin on our behalf?
We turned our backs on him
and looked the other way.
He was despised and we did not care.
Because it follows Slater.
And we thought his troubles
were a punishment from God, a
punishment for his own sins, but
he was pierced for our rebellion.
Crushed for our sins.
He was beaten, so we could be whole.
He was whipped.
So we could be healed.
all of us like sheep have straight away.
We have left God's
paths to follow our own.
Yeah, the Lord laid on him.
The sense of assault.
so there's competing school
of thought in Israel.
In Jewish history.
If there is a tangible.
Your shoe, savior.
Or if Israel itself yeah.
Would be the savior.
And that goes down a rabbit hole about.
Oral Torah and things like that.
That's really outside of the scope
of conversation like this, but.
Aye.
Have been so blessed to maintain
relationships with France and Israel.
They know I'm a believer in your shoe, but
they also know, I believe in their God.
Yeah.
there's so much ignorance
in the world and then.
Obviously, because Satan's
the God of this world.
Like back during the
Holocaust, They excuse for.
Hitler and tilling.
It did use was that they killed Christ.
And that's such a distortion
of Christianity that is just.
It can only come from Satan, And then
there's people that say, the Romans
killed Jesus and the Jews killed Jesus.
Not realizing that God says it right here.
God sent him To die for
each one of us in this.
everybody who would ever be born.
He died for all of us
and that God sent him.
To that he chose that.
And as soon as we can embrace what
that means to us individually.
We then get to be able
to grow in his grace.
And we begin to understand that.
That had to happen.
So God could forgive us
and we could walk in grace.
Let me go back just out of curiosity,
how did you as a Christian.
Gets turned on to study and did the.
Abraham and the blessing of Abraham and.
That's such a fun story.
My wife wanted to go on a tour to is real.
I had no interest at all.
And this is about 2018.
That's it.
your sister wants to go.
Why don't you just book a tour with her?
So they did, they booked a
Paul Wilbert tour to go over.
In 2019.
I was working out in Colorado.
I was on business.
And I got an email.
Came across my desk.
And it said that the company that I
was working for was looking for to
lean continuous or lean six Sigma
continuous improvement engineers.
To take a temporary position in Israel.
I was a lean six Sigma black belt, a
continuous improvement practitioner.
And.
Is that well, let me call
Jan and see what she says.
When she said.
yes.
I put my name in the hat and I was
one of two people selected to go
spend quite a bit of time in Israel.
So I was able to fly her out there and
she lived in the hotel with me in Haifa
off and on Over the period of half a year.
And.
I knew as soon as I landed there.
That something was
different about that land.
I didn't know what hit me.
But the longer I was there and the
more I learned about that land and.
I had a rental car.
So I was able to drive around and
experience all sorts of stuff.
Plus living in the culture and
living with the people, our
hotel had a synagogue in it.
And We learned what Shabbat is all
about because every Friday night
that place was packed with observant
Jews, starting their Shabbat.
And it was about that time that.
We started observing
Shabbat in our hotel room.
So we'd light the candles and we'd have
the holler bread in our hotel room.
I feel like contemporary.
Christianity has done
such a disservice to.
The old Testament.
Yeah, good point.
And when God spoke his.
Commands.
The fourth one makes just as much sense
to its audience, original audience.
As all the others.
Why do we pick that one out of our
vocabulary as contemporary Christians?
Because we're Americans and
we believe in horrible work.
And so does our father.
Our father equipped us to do
all of that hard work, but
he also said, you know what?
You're all just going
to take a day of rest.
Yeah.
And once we learned how to embrace that.
Even more peace came into our home.
One of God's appointed times his Mo D.
He promises us that he will visit us.
if we will make time for him.
He will visit us.
You want to get to know his peace?
Make an appointed time with him.
Keep his appointed time.
Are you saying Shabbat?
is that a point?
That's one of them.
Yeah.
And if you read about the feasts
in the old Testament, Never does
anywhere in the new Testament say,
all right, we're done with that one.
In fact, our savior Jesus, you're sure.
Was celebrating the Passover pace off.
When he spent his last
few days in Jerusalem.
Yeah.
So if it was good enough for him, I
think I'll keep up doing that myself.
But so all of this got me started.
I also learned that generations ago.
I descend from, a Jewish man.
Who, Has verified his roots
go back all the way to Aaron.
I am of the priestly
lineage through my mother.
But because I'm not a male of a male.
That w that wouldn't inherit, but
it's still, and it doesn't matter.
Anyway, we're already grafted in.
It's just, I've got a few extra genes.
And so I fell in love with some
of the music that I was hearing.
Yeah.
And.
When I got home, I could watch YouTube
videos at the music and they show
the transliteration on the screen.
And so I could sing along with the
words in Hebrew and see the English.
Letters.
That's how I learned
the first from Psalm 96.
But.
there's so much passion
in the messianic music.
I it's almost all I listened to
anymore, but that's what got me started.
I wanted to learn more Hebrew.
And it has blessed me.
Not because I want to be Jewish.
I don't want to be a Hebrew.
although I am, I've
been through the water.
I've been baptized that
does make me a Hebrew.
Are you talking about because you're
baptized into the Christian faith.
You're grafted down.
if you look up Hebrew, it means that
you've passed through the waters.
Oh, okay.
So when the tribes of Israel were leaving
Egypt and they passed through the red sea.
It wasn't until after they
had passed through the waters
that they were called Hebrews.
Oh, I didn't know that.
MacBook Air Microphone-9: Well, let
me just ask you, what do you think.
Is going on with all this
antisemitism in the world.
Today, of course, it's always.
Been in the world.
But what is going on?
It seems totally insane.
MacBook Air Microphone-1: I don't.
Have.
All of the answers.
I've got some that have
resolved in my own mind.
One of them are accuser knows the
book better than many of us do.
Yeah.
And he knows God's plan.
I think where.
The inquisition failed where
forced conversions failed.
Where Hitler failed.
Where Intifada has failed.
Where Hamas and Hezbollah have failed.
It's because.
God.
Told us in his word.
He will keep a remnant
of his people around.
And.
Satan.
I did.
I really don't like using.
Uh, name.
Just rather call him by what he
is, and he's just the accuser.
Yeah.
I think that.
you just look at what's happened
since October 7th, how much hate.
Has been stirred up against
a population of people.
Whether you consider a rifle or unjust.
Just the sheer volume of hate.
Yeah.
That has been launched.
That's because hate is one
of the strongest emotions.
And that's what the accuser's stirring up.
It's Hey, it happens in our politics.
Yeah.
It happens in religion.
It happens in cultures.
Yeah.
Jesus.
Satan was the God of this world.
So obviously
If we're not tuned in to the real God.
We're going to be
deceived by the false God.
That's all he has is deception.
Anyways.
It's all in our.
Human minds that we get so screwed up,
but he knows how to work it though.
Yeah.
He's been deceiving people since day one.
actually, So shortly thereafter.
so did just go back to
your personal story.
What was your master's degree?
I got a master of business.
From J U.
Oh, Jacksonville university.
Awesome.
Yeah, it was.
I really wonderful experience.
I worked for a company that
really took care of people.
They paid for all of my undergrad.
And who.
About 20, 30% of my masters.
but it was worth it.
It gave me a foot to the next level and.
It's what allowed me to
retire as early as I did.
let me.
Ask is just in light of your
whole story and we'll start
wrapping things up here, but.
Just listening to your story.
You've been through a lot.
And you had a rough childhood.
you struggled to make it in this world?
Thank God for the Navy, huh?
Absolutely.
as you look back on your life, you.
How do you see.
God.
At work.
Yeah.
how do you experience.
Your life now in relation to your past,
that's actually a question that I've
been able to find a good answer for.
And over the last few years.
Because I grew up.
Blaming my dad.
Blaming my mom.
Because my dad was absentee.
He dragged me out to California.
I lived in a really toxic
environment for years.
Move back across the
country to live with my.
Alcoholic mother and
her alcoholic husband.
And.
My mother was incapable.
Of.
Being a mother to.
a young teenage boy that she
hadn't seen for six years.
Yeah.
She wasn't prepared for it
emotionally, physically, financially.
And my dad wasn't helping out.
I look at the situation and
I look at how I responded.
How depressed ICOT.
Yeah, 13 year old boys
don't need all SIRS.
I'm just telling ya.
As an older adult now I
have finally figured out.
That.
Neither of those parents are
responsible for who I am now.
It's my relationship with my
Lord and savior that has helped
me get to where I am now.
He has gifted me.
He's given me.
Insights things that have allowed
me to be who I am, has given me
the freedom to learn how to serve
him in multiple ways, whether it's
working in a prison ministry, which.
Leading praise and worship groups.
Being a handyman.
And getting to help out.
Customers who were in their eighties.
Yeah.
I have had to learn.
To forgive my mother and my father.
For every perceived hurt.
that I've had.
Why would I ever think that I
would have a perfect parent?
Because even if I had a perfect parent,
I wouldn't have been a perfect child.
So it doesn't matter that crap
that I had to come up through.
What I came through is a testimony that
God can use anyone for his purpose.
Where you may have just answered it,
but my next question is going to be.
What if you had a one bit of
advice that you could pass on to.
Anybody out there listening.
Say a young man who's.
Evan.
parental troubles.
What would you say?
I tried to allude to that earlier.
And I think it has to do with us.
Embracing.
God's love for us first.
Because we can't.
Forgive someone else until we know
what it feels like to be forgiven.
We need to know just how much.
God loves us how real it is.
And once we can internalize that.
We can begin to see
those who have heard us.
As people who are just as loved by God.
So we need to learn how to forgive
them and know it's not easy.
'cause we carry Hertz.
We carry burdens.
We carry pain since cars.
Sometimes some scars are generational.
And we need, God's help
to break through that.
We need this power of the holy
spirit to break those tethers that.
Keep us chained to our history.
Yeah, and we need to learn how to forgive.
I think that's maybe why Jesus
included is so prominently in the
what's called the Lord's prayer.
So seems to be a fundamental
spiritual principle.
So one thing I was talking about.
Just want to revisit the Shabbat.
The power of Shabbat.
For me was learning about.
Peace.
Learning about Shalom.
I grew up hearing the word Shalom.
just meant peace near.
Those are the two finger salute
piece, It wasn't until I studied it.
And I looked at some mid rash,
some Hebrew commentary on it.
Where you begin to
understand what that word.
Truly means to someone in the
culture to whom it was spoken.
one of the books I read recently was
reading the Bible with rabbi Jesus, and
it helps put you in context with so much.
It's written.
You've got to remember.
Jesus and his disciples didn't
have a new Testament to read.
All they knew was Torah
the writings, the profits.
And so that's why once you understand.
The old Testament, so much of what
you read in the new Testament.
It's just repeat.
Yeah.
it's just incredible.
But.
Learning about what Shalom
meant to the original hearers.
When.
Moses and Aaron are coming
down from Mount Sinai.
And God tells Moses.
This is how you are to
place my name on my people.
And he goes through there's prayer.
And at the end of it.
The last word is Shalom.
And what did that word mean?
It means wholeness.
It means completeness.
If anything has been taken
from you, it will be restored.
That.
If you're missing something,
it will be provided for you.
That your crops would yield fruit,
that your laborers would return.
A prophet.
All of these things.
You do a word study on Shalom
and it's more than just.
God's peace.
Y'all.
And it wasn't until I
began to understand that.
this prayer that Aaron and his
brothers are being instructed
to pray over God's people.
It's telling him that God
wants to put his name on them.
And gift them.
Everything they need.
Yeah.
And by extension us.
So Sheila is something
that most people really.
You don't understand that
as a thank you, baby.
The hard to understand without
having the old Testament,
such as Isaiah 53, Isaiah 61.
Psalm 1 0 3, all the benefits
to remember all the benefits as.
Does show long where we, when we
remember all he's done for us already.
That's Shalom.
And we can't really live.
We can't really experience Shalom.
Without.
His presence.
And we can't do it with a hard heart.
If we have a hard heart, because we've
withheld forgiveness from someone.
We'll never know that piece.
That's why I think it's so important
that we learn how to forgive.
Yes.
MacBook Air Microphone-10: Well, it's
about time for us to wrap this up.
any final words and, uh,
would you pray for us?
MacBook Air Microphone-1:
Pull up numbers six.
Then the Lord said to Moses.
Tell Aaron and his sons to
bless the people of Israel
with this special blessing.
Yeah, era than.
Shalom.
May the Lord bless you.
And protect you.
May the Lord smile on you
and be gracious to you.
May the Lord show you his favor.
And give you his peace.
And whenever Aaron and his sons blessed
the people of Israel in my name.
I will bless them.
MacBook Air Microphone-11: Well, I can
think of a better way to end this.
Thank you so much here.
And Shalom.
MacBook Air Microphone-1: Shalom.
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But none of that is relevant.
If Jesus has changed your
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All of our stories are completely unique.
No one has a story like yours, and you
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So don't be intimidated.
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Thank you for listening today and Shalom.
