Faith & Purpose

Speaker: Welcome everyone to
Faith and Purpose podcast.

Each episode of this podcast contains the
personal testimony of an ordinary person

transformed by an extraordinary God.

My name is Kaylin and I'm
here to introduce this podcast

for my friend Jesse Duke.

Jesse is a husband, father, author,
life recovery guide, lay counselor,

and small group leader, but his
most important role is disciple.

As a disciple of Jesus.

Jesse created this podcast to help other
believers tell their faith stories.

We'll be hearing the personal
testimonies of all sorts of people

who have one thing in common,
Jesus has transformed their lives.

Jesus used parables because he created
us to learn best through story.

And as we listen to how God has worked
in others lives, we find encouragement

and inspiration for our own faith walk.

Whether you are already a believer or
just a curious seeker, we believe that

as you listen to these stories, you will
be encouraged on your own faith journey.

We are sure that God can speak to you
through one of these episodes and that you

will see that our Heavenly Father truly
works all things together for our good.

When we simply love and trust him.

If you are currently going through a
trial, we believe that you will come

to see that your troubles, heartbreaks,
and failures are not gravestones, but

stepping stones into new life in Christ.

Here's Jesse with today's guest.

Welcome everybody to
faith and purpose podcast.

This would be a different kind of episode
than the previous ones, because we have a

married couple clay and Casey claimer and
their beautiful newborn daughter Emerson.

All together today.

This is episode 21.

And just to bring all up to speed.

We had Casey on episode 19, who told
her story and then her husband clay

was on episode 21 just before this one.

Telling his story.

And if you hear some baby noises
in the background, it's just

little Emerson chairman in.

if you haven't heard episodes 19 and
20, it would be helpful if you went back

and listened to each of their stories.

This episode will be both of them telling
how God's been working in their lives.

Since they each received Jesus
and allowed him to be in charge.

So Casey.

You were into witchcraft and
the new age and all that.

And you told about how you had
randomly read your Bible in the past

and how it was a mystery to you.

You were unable to understand it,
but then one day you opened it up

to the book of Deuteronomy and all
of a sudden you were able to get it.

And you got convicted about your
lifestyle and then, and through

a series of events and burglar
rating, things began to change and.

And you gave your life to the Lord.

And, shortly after that, as a
result of Casey's new direction,

you clay began knocking on God's
store and Jesus came to you in a.

Dramatic way.

And you were radically transformed.

I don't want to retail it
for you, but if anyone.

Wants to hear it taking, go
back to the last part of episode

20, to hear all about that.

but I want to to hear all
about what is going on today

in your marriage and your life.

And how the Lord has been leading
both abuse Since all this happened.

So who wants to start?

Jesse: Let

Clay: how it was when I converted to
Christianity before Clayton did, because

that period of time was so important,
I feel for my own sanctification.

And then for his.

Breakthrough because I know, I think as
a Christian, we all know what it's like

to try to help someone see the truth and
how hard and painful that can be, how

traumatizing, how it can be really hard
because people have this idea of what

Christianity is, him and I come from
very, I would say, Liberal families.

So growing up in a family where the
Bible was seen more as the enemy

politically, then as a political
weapon, then as a faith, even if

we were growing up Catholic, I
think, later on in our childhoods.

I can't speak for him.

I can speak for me.

It was seen as roped into a whole,
political ideology and not a something you

would want to do or want to look into or
investigate, Christians were like crazy

people, that were like, super conservative
and pro life and all these things, right?

So I'm raised thinking like that.

So I had a heart for where Clayton
might be coming from when I converted.

And I was like, man, I know how crazy
I must seem to my family and to him.

Cause I had, testified to my family,
in person, what had happened to me.

So I had done that and I, and
they knew what was going on.

it came to, I'm in this
relationship with this man.

We're not engaged.

We're not married.

We're dating.

We're both divorced, both
living at home with our parents.

And I was completely in love with him.

I really loved him.

I really wanted to stay with him.

I really wanted to be with him,
but I knew that it wasn't going

to be easy to be with him.

If I was a Christian, he wasn't.

And I talked to a few Christians
at church and they said, do not

yoke yourself with an unbeliever.

That's a biblical scripture about
how if you're a Christian, it's not

recommended by God to marry or be,
marry a non Christian or an unbeliever.

Now, a lot of people are in marriages
where one is a believer and one's not.

I understand those dynamics
definitely exist for many reasons.

I'm just here to speak on what I was
looking for after my conversion, which

was a relationship that was built on God,
the true God, and not this like other God

that I've been idolizing for many years.

So I, I wasn't sure what to do.

I knew that I could talk to him about
it, but I would have to be careful.

And how I did that.

And, I prayed a lot.

I prayed for him a lot during that time.

I also did start to change our
relationship and what I was willing

to do and not willing to do.

I had to.

Tell him I would not marry
him if he was an unbeliever.

That was not a fun conversation.

I had to tell him we were no longer
going to be engaging in, some

premarital sex as we had been.

it was hard.

I had to like ladies.

Boundaries down because of
God and I did them willingly.

I knew that it's what God wanted and
it was what the scripture talks about.

And I knew that this was part of my
sanctification and I had to trust God that

he knew what he was doing, in our lives.

And so I was like, no matter how this
plays out, I have to be okay with it.

if Clay walks away, I
have to be okay with it.

And I would pray to God.

eventually my prayers became
less selfish and more sounding.

And I meant to more sounding
God, I would rather clay be

a believer than stay with me.

I think it's more important
for him to have an eternal life

with you, not separated from
you than it is even be with me.

So even if he breaks up, I just
want him to become a believer.

No matter what.

So I just started praying for that.

not, outside of our relationship,
because I felt no matter how

this plays out, I really want
that for him more than anything.

So I, we did start having
conversations of course, regarding

Christianity, regarding, my faith
and my conversion and his response

would often be, I already did that.

I'm never doing that again.

Meaning I'm never going to be a Christian
again, referring to his Catholic.

Catholicism upbringing.

And I was like, Oh no.

But I'm like, he said never before, so
I'm not going to let that be the end.

So I would keep pushing sometimes
and I would push back really hard.

If he started to get theological
with me, I would start, quoting what

little scripture I knew and, just
telling him, look, This is the truth.

I wouldn't be here.

I wouldn't like lie to you.

I just think it's the truth.

I believe it.

And so we would have these, philosophical
debates, have you, or theological debates.

And sometimes it would end up with
me storming out of a restaurant and

crying on a bench outside because I was
like, I don't know what else to say.

I don't know what else to do.

It would get really, it would get rough.

And, somehow we were still
together after all that.

And, that's when he ended up

a trip to Colorado.

And we also had started from
a friend's recommendation

watching the show The Chosen.

And, I wasn't sure what to think about it.

Like some Christians
say you don't watch it.

Some Christians love it.

So I was like, at this point, I don't
know if much can hurt our relationship.

I'm like, it's already pretty rocky.

So I'm like, let's see
if he wants to watch it.

That we started watching that
and I could see he was interested

in the characters and the story.

And I would, we would sit
and watch the episodes.

I'm like, Oh, I know
what's going to happen.

And he's like, how do you
know what's going to happen?

I'm like, cause it's in the Bible.

So yeah, about that time
he goes to Colorado.

So I'm like fully prepared for him to
end our relationship and to walk away.

But at the same time, I can tell he really
loves me and he wants to make it work.

So that's where we left
off before his conversion.

It was really hard.

It was totally.

I've never done something so hard
in a relationship as I did that.

So it sounds As much as you wanted
to be with clay, you were willing to.

Just let him go.

If he wasn't going to be a believer.

It sounds like you were more.

Interested in seeing him gain
eternal life in Christ and to.

Compromise to be with him.

That's true.

Love.

Clay: I knew God was reading my
heart about this and that's how God

always, I think, works with us as he
reads your heart and you really have

to get to a place where you don't.

for me, I often believe if my prayer
is not being answered yet, it's because

my heart is not in the right place.

I'm not seeing things clearly
as God would like me to see

them for my own sanctification.

Whether I'm praying for a financial
breakthrough or a job breakthrough

or a relationship breakthrough,
I'm like, okay, I have to start.

Something's not moving in this, in
the direction I think it should move.

what, where's my heart at?

So I, I learned early on, like
even just a baby Christian.

I was like, okay, my heart needs.

To really find the right place
for him as a person who loves him.

So yeah, I totally did begin to
pray God, I'm okay if, I know

you'll take care of me, but I
really, I'm praying for his soul.

Like he, I want him to know you.

And I would tell God he would
be a great Christian God.

And I'm like, look at all
he's done in the new age.

Think of how much he would do for you.

And then I thought, look at.

I just thought of all the things
he would do as a Christian as

a believer that would help God.

And so I just would
start praying into that.

not that God needs us, but just knowing
I just knew if he I even told my mom,

I said, and she's not a believer.

I said, mom, if he converted life,
just think of what he would be

like, not wanting him to change
his personality or anything.

Just thinking about, wow.

if he's so passionate about.

Mindfulness and Buddhism and
Taoism and all these things.

Think how passionate he
would be for the Lord.

So I would, keep that in mind too,
of that feeling of he would be a

great, just a great man of God.

if he found the truth.

So I pray for that.

Jesse: Okay.

Clay, I interrupted you.

You were about to say something.

Go ahead.

Clay: Yeah, no, it's, so if you remember
that the image that I ended with was, like

an animal that was struggling like a wet
cat and fighting and you come up, come

across this animal and want to help it and
it's just scratching and fighting and and.

that as an allegory for my relationship
with God and just the theme of God drawing

me near to him and drawing me closer.

And so looking back, I believe that, the
Bible tells us that God knows our heart.

And so I believe that God, he
reaches out for people and he loves

all people, not just ones that are
believers and that he loved me so

much that he put Casey in my life

and allowed me to fall in love
with her before I was saved.

before I knew him and he knew, and so
he knew it was like Casey was like the,

worm on the hook and, fishers of men.

and so I, I believe that
this is how I look at.

look at my life and my relationship.

And so I think, it's just beyond us to
understand exactly how big and awesome God

is and how and just how much he loves us.

So I think that part of the story is
You know, I got hooked on Casey and then

slowly because I was so far from
him and, sometimes with children,

you need to give them these.

incentives, and God,
our God is a good dad.

He's really a good father.

And I think that's
exactly how he treated me.

and Hey, just look at this for a second.

and then, so I don't know if that's,
Maybe that cheapens the, but that's

just the, that's just the experience.

when like Casey went silent, for
about a week or so, I just didn't

hear from her and I, I was like,
I don't know what I did, but I'm

gonna, I'm just gonna hope it's okay.

And I think she told a little bit about
what happened during that week for her.

But she

in that week found Christ
and gave her life to Christ.

And then

she reemerged from that silence
and, broke the news to me, and

it was really hard for her.

It was hard for her because
she was so happy, but then she

had this burden of I think that

I guess one of the principles I
really want to highlight in my story

was it's a little bit, the way I was
saved is really fantastic and epic.

and praise God for that,
because I think I like.

Again, I needed some God knew what he knew
what I needed, and in, in general, I think

the Christian walk in the regeneration
that happens when you accept Christ into

your life and the regenerative, spirit,
and the, sanctification process and is

slow and it's gradual and it's internal,
and so it was, it was very, epic.

And also it's been a lifetime for us, I'm
40 and Casey's 33 and that's, time of a

gradual process of coming to the Lord, and
being marked and set apart for the Lord.

Now that we've actually
given our lives to Christ.

and surrendered our lives to him.

And there is, it's not
a mechanistic growth.

It's a slow, gradual growth, like a
flower, or botanical growth, like you

see a plant or a tree and it's alive.

But you can't see it growing.

Jesse: Oh, that's good.

Yeah.

Clay: don't see it, you don't
see it growing, but you know that

it's alive and you, and that's
how it feels to have Christ now.

and so I just wanted to, I just
wanted to say that too, that for

other people, for every person that
has a story like mine, which is You

know, exciting this rapid growth.

I want to say this before I talk
about this rapid thing that God did

in our life, that for every one of
those stories, there's 20 stories of

people who are waiting on the Lord,
who nothing is happening, who they're

having hardship after hardship, and just.

on their knees and just not knowing,
like not seeing it, not feeling it.

And that's okay.

God is bigger than a feeling
and he's bigger than a rapid,

like it happened like that.

This, what I'm about to describe,
it happened like this for us, but

now we're in a different season.

and it doesn't always happen like that.

Sometimes it's a lifetime.

Of, and for us it was too, it just
culminated in us getting saved in this

way and dovetailing together and get
all these gifts that you're now I'm now

in front of you here doing this podcast
with a wife and child, it's beyond my

mind to understand how did that happen
so quickly and that, but that it's slow

Jesse: Yeah.

Clay: it's gradual and that it,
everybody's story is different.

So people out there, if
they're listening, don't.

Be discouraged if your story is
slower or different or, it's just

beautiful, whatever, wherever you're
at in your relationship or your

journey into believing and just
turning to the Lord, because what,

that's what happened for me was.

Casey came back and broke the news to me.

And initially I was like, okay, this
should, hopefully this will wear off soon

and we can get back to what we were doing.

and then in my heart, I could know,
I knew because she had this piece.

over her.

And it was, I couldn't believe
it because she had literally

given up her life.

for the listeners out there to
understand, like we were like going to

events and doing psychic And we were
so involved in, yeah, we, it was, you

can't get more, like more, you can't
drink the Kool Aid more than we drank.

we were.

If I could, people that know me and my
parents could attest to this is seeing

my room and the things I had on my walls.

And it was shocking.

It's shocking looking back.

All of a sudden Casey gave all
that up pretty much her whole life

and identity in a week's time.

I couldn't understand why she was happy.

And peaceful.

And, she says that she was firm and
what she was firm on what she believed.

And that's totally different
person because she was peaceful.

There wasn't all this, something
happened to her and I could see it.

And God laid everything out in a
way where if it was anybody but

her, I would have walked away.

But because I already loved her and God
allowed us to be together, even if even

we were taking it upon ourselves to do
simple things that aren't ordained by God.

but in the larger scheme, like we
were able to meet each other and.

And so in a sense, I was hooked and I
was curious enough because I loved her.

I was curious enough
about what was going on.

And I knew I had this understanding
of her life because we were so close

and before she was saved, like, all
we would talk about was this unquote,

spirituality, and all these things, like
we would just do this stuff together.

And so I had this deep, intimate
relationship with her, which

involved this deep spirituality.

And all of a sudden that spirituality
was gone and Christ was there.

And as an outsider, that's
a different experience.

Christ is a different
experience than any other thing.

It's not a brick wall.

it's.

If you want him, if you want to see him
and open your heart, if you're open, if

there's something there for you to find.

And so what I saw in Casey, although
it was in, I felt my flesh at the time

felt hurt and dejected and defensive.

underneath that, my heart was curious.

what happened to this woman in a week?

What's in that book?

And so even though my mouth was saying
to her, like, how could you believe that?

My heart was curious and
trying to make sense of it.

if you go back and listen to my episode,
you'll understand that about me is I was

trying to fit it into my understanding of.

even if we weren't going to be able to
work out, I wanted to know why I wanted

to know what is it that happened to her.

And like I said, she was different.

She just had a confidence and a peace
and a love that I could tell that her

love surpassed this material world.

Like this material relationship we
had in this physical, ourselves,

like that there was a love that she
had for me that went beyond this

relationship that we had built.

And I was mad.

I was mad because I didn't feel that.

So I think deep inside us, like you
mentioned in the beginning, it's

like this yearning for God and, Jesus
is God and there is only one God.

And so ultimately our
heart yearns for him.

But there's all this stuff in the way.

And that's what it was.

And it was just hard.

And so we went, we were fighting, arguing.

And so in the 3D world, I we were
both like Casey had surrendered the

relationship and was just praying.

Like when she said she prayed for me.

she prayed probably no one
has ever prayed for me.

To be say it to be saved and stuff.

And she just said, I
know you don't like this.

I know that you don't believe in this.

Would you just watch this show with me?

And I'm thinking, okay, sure.

Why not?

if this is the end of our relationship
and this woman that loved me and I

loved her, if this is going to be
the end, like I might as well just

end good, I might as well not be
like a complete, bitter person, and

watching that show, it gave the chosen.

Yeah.

It gave me a mental picture of

Christ and his life.

So I highly recommend
that show to anybody.

Not sure it's just check it out
because it made me think and the

guy that plays Jesus is really good.

And, so it's somehow I'm
a very image based person.

So it somehow just was like, okay,
that's what everyone's talking about.

that's what it must.

That's what he must be like, because.

Sometimes it doesn't translate from words
on a page to, to, like an image for me.

so that was like set the, like in
a way till the soil a little bit,

but it, it didn't go all the way.

it just satiated my curiosity in a sense.

And then, like I said, I left, and then
I left for Colorado and got on that

plane, and Casey and I had a conversation
beforehand, and I fully expected that

our relationship would end, because
I knew it couldn't continue, and I

didn't believe, and I'm not the kind
of person that can pretend to believe.

I'm just, I'm not that guy.

Like I'm, I thought about that.

I was like, I could do that.

And I was like, no, I can't.

I'm not, I'm just not,
I'm not that person.

I can't do that.

you can't do it for somebody else either.

Like you're not the kind of person
to just bend your will and just

be like, Oh, I'll do it for you.

Don't do that.

Yeah, anything.

No, but this is what I mean about.

I'm just trying to tie this
back to the beginning is the

way that everything unfolded.

God, what happened with Casey?

Let's just say that it
made me want to believe

And that's why I believe that God
allowed everything to happen the way

he did because he loves me and he
wants to bring me into his flock.

And it was only through this unique
circumstances with this woman that I

would ever even want to believe I wanted.

so that's where it left me is I got
on a plane ready for everything to

go and you can go back and listen to
my episode, but there was a spark of

there of wanting to but not believing.

And to me, that's a nil.

it's like a fraction.

It just cancels out.

It doesn't you get to zero if you
know And i'll say this for the people

listening that if you're in that
place right now It's not a zero.

It's a big deal that you want to believe
is everything and don't be afraid or

scared or upset with yourself that
you're not there yet because that's

the seed of life And that's where I was

And then if you want to listen to my
episode, you'll hear what happened

to actually cause me to surrender and
bend my knee and surrender my life

to Christ in my trip to Colorado.

So all that, so that happened

and I had that experience, which
only God can provide to move my

heart and reveal himself to me.

But what happened at the same
time was I just turned to him.

So I wanted to believe, but
there was no activation.

And then I had this experience
in Colorado where I actually had

an activation and asked the Lord.

I took the leap of not knowing
him and not while not believing.

I took the leap to.

Talk to something and someone and believe
in on someone that I didn't know and there

he Was and i'll never Be able to thank
him enough in all the ways that everything

happened like that and then after that,
like I, in my episode, I shared, but it

just happened right away that all of a
sudden, through mysterious circumstances,

I was able to graduate my program.

And I knew in that moment, when
I surrendered to Christ, I also

surrendered to the love and
the plan that He has for us.

And I knew, and in that moment, I knew
I was gonna, I was gonna marry Casey.

That was my first priority and what's
funny about this for everyone listening

is I did not believe in marriage

Before I got on the plane to go
to Colorado, I had no interest

in marriage or kids or anything

I was just trying to have fun and
feel good and Enlighten myself

right was this a new age mo, right?

it's all you it's all what
you want to do for you

Jesse: So

Clay: Underneath it, all the, whatever
the talk they're talking is, that's what

it's about and that's what it leads to.

So that's what I was about.

And all of a sudden I had this
burning desire to get married.

Jesse: let me just go, just for clarity,
so when you went to, Colorado, y'all

were having this issue, this major
issue in your relationship, Casey was,

Saying that she really couldn't be
with you if you weren't a believer,

but she couldn't force you or make
you a believer, so it was up to you.

You had to do something.

what I'm hearing you say is that you
really weren't wanting to be a Christian

so that you could be with Casey.

You just, you really wanted the truth.

and that's what you were seeking, and
then after this experience with Jesus,

it's like he infused you with this desire,
these, this new desire to actually, leave

your old life and do the right thing and
get married and, it's not like you were

orchestrating all this in your mind.

It just came to you as a
result of this experience.

Am I right?

Clay: and in a larger sense, Casey, you
can tell me what you think, but we both,

what I, what looking back is we both
had to surrender each other because we

had placed each other in the, in this,
in a way and spot where God goes Casey.

found God and that knocked me out
of the spot where I used to be and

I was And basically throughout,
throughout the time I had surrendered

to, by the time I got on the plane,
I had surrendered the relationship.

Cause you were ready for it to, you were
like prepared mentally for it to end.

Yeah.

you had come to some kind of
term that I had come to term of.

This relationship is not going to continue

like it is.

Yeah, there was no way it could have
continued as it was that last month.

Cause it was just miserable and I was sad.

And I was like, I really love this
woman, but I had to, it didn't work out

and so I had let go and surrendered the
relationship and the difference at that

time was Casey had Christ in that place
where he belongs top, and I had nothing.

And I was wanting and yearning.

and so I knew, I thought the relate,
I knew the relationship was done,

but then I still want, I still didn't
know what to do with that hole.

Jesse: yeah.

Clay: and then God, by his grace
and mercy, gave me that opportunity,

surrendered to him and I did.

And my heart, it was like really
clear about the image of a heart

of stone to a heart of flesh,

believe that's the journey
I'm on now with Christ.

That's going to last the rest of my
life and turning into a heart of flesh,

learning how to really love and be loved.

but yeah.

So then, so yes, you're right.

and then all of a sudden the ho
the Holy Spirit just moved in me

and I had this burning desire.

I wa it was a ha I was happier than
I've ever been because if you listen

to my episode, you'll know that I've
been like how Patrick was and if few

episodes back, seeking my whole life

Jesse: Yeah.

Clay: and to finally have found.

I really wasn't a new per,
felt like a new person.

and I knew I was like,
I'm going to marry Casey.

And I, we, I went back

and I proposed to her at my graduation
party a week later, I like literally

went back, got a ring, proposed to her.

And I was like, we're getting married.

And it was like, you did tell me
though, that you were, you believed.

Because otherwise I
wouldn't have said yes.

yeah.

I told her about, I told her about,
I told her that I accepted Christ

and I think that was probably one
of the happiest moments of our life.

And,

Jesse: tell me about that.

How did that come about?

How did you tell them?

Clay: it's a blur.

I just, it was like, it's
like being on a roller coaster

or something when it's over.

It's yeah, go ahead.

so when he was in Colorado, he
was texting me and we were talking

on the phone when we could.

Between his classes and stuff.

And he was telling me things
about what work he was doing.

and he did tell me about the songs I
had sent him, the Christian songs I had

sent him and how much they touched him.

and he, did you tell me about the vision
you had with Jesus or did you wait?

all happened.

It really all happened so fast.

Like I accepted Christ.

That same day, miraculously,
I was allowed to graduate.

And I was like, Conversations
were very interesting.

I was trying to piece together what
was going on, but all I could say is

all I knew is God was working in his
life and I could see it very clearly.

I was like, okay, God's really moving.

In his life right now.

And I just have to sit, wait
patiently, don't interfere with it.

Just let him go through at that point.

I was like, I'm not going to continue
arguing with him about theological

things, really over this trip.

I'm just gonna, I'm just gonna wait
patiently and, see what happens.

And so during that trip,
it was interesting.

He was doing this presentation, I
remember, and he was like, Finding out

all these crazy things about his college.

He was going to, that he was
graduating from this college in

Colorado and it's a Buddhist college.

And he was finding out how the original
founders were really not very good

people, even though they were like monks
in the Buddhism tradition or whatever.

And so he was finding out
all these weird things.

And I'm thinking, oh my gosh, of course,
because like, when you're living apart

from God, but you think you are God,
you're going to do some crazy stuff,

like So it's just a matter of I really
think of the scripture that where

God says you can tell, somewhat about
someone by the fruit, by their fruit

and what does their fruit look like?

And sometimes you can really
see that, even though there's

amazing, they look amazing, like
churches, but they're really cults.

If you look at the founder, you can
see how their life was like destroyed.

how they were terrible.

A lot of them were not very good people.

And so of course the same
was true of his college.

He's I can't believe this.

And he's starting to tell
his classmates about it.

And I'm thinking that's interesting.

Like he was so gung ho about,
this program and stuff.

And now he's starting to see
it in a different perspective.

And, I just, I could tell I
was like, okay, God's really.

Opening his eyes to things in
a way that speaks to him, not

just, it's very personal to Clay

and, things that kept happening.

Like his friend was supportive of
him, being curious about Christianity

and his friend wasn't a Christian.

He was staying with him over that trip and
they would have these conversations and

I could tell God was using these people
in his life, the situations in his life.

He, God even used his cat dying.

To help him be in this place where he
was so in a way broken that it cracked

him open, so it's like God will break
you down, but in order to build you up

in the way that he knows that you can be,

he built, he made you to be.

Yeah.

and the thing, thanks baby.

the thing that happened, is
there's still work to do.

And when you're saved, so that all
that is to say is it was very, I

was like in shock, I was happy.

And then also God reveals himself to me.

The real living, true God of the
universe revealed himself to me.

It's like an earthquake

in your life.

it's like in the Bible when they
can't, you can't see, they can't

look at them, and they're confused.

I imagine You know during the
transfiguration or other times where

God revealed himself to Moses and other
prophets that They were confused and

scared and excited and didn't really know
what they saw, but they knew it was God

and then your God reveals this new truth
his truth that he's real and everything

about everything changes and it's it's
It's strange because it's almost like

this new life that's opened up, but it
was right in front of you the whole time.

And so it's almost like you're
living in the same circumstance,

but this new life opened up.

So all that has to say is when I
think about the actual moments of

these things, It's like this podcast.

I'm not thinking about what I'm saying.

I feel like the whole, we pray before this
and the Holy Spirit guides us, in a way.

and that's what happened.

And I, so I don't think you told
me about Jesus until a while later.

I had to make sense of it all.

yeah.

Like I had to process it all.

So I think at that point I was
just like, what I'm graduating.

Yeah, like it was like, okay, I
was like, I'm going to get married.

Like I knew in my mind, the ring,
everything was so clear to me.

And you don't go from not ever want,
not wanting to get married at all.

And thinking marriage is a sham to being
obsessed with a specific ring type.

Like I knew exactly I knew the actual
like typology of the way the ring was

going to be and what it meant and exactly
what it looked like and where to get it.

And all that stuff just was going
on and I was just doing it and then

at my grad and then so I did that
and I got home and I got the ring.

I don't think I don't know
what I said much to anybody.

yeah, you didn't really talk
much about your conversion.

Exactly.

At that point.

Because it was so like.

It was all still, it was happening.

I think it was all part of the same thing.

And that's why I wanted to say this.

You were like telling me, I'm
not ready to talk about it.

Exactly.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's driving me nuts.

I was like, I want to know what happened.

Jesse: Yeah.

Clay: was like, I want to know what
happened, but I know he's processing it.

Everybody was like, Whoa, I don't
know what's going on with Clay, but

I think it's good because everyone's
been so used to me and if you go

back and listen to my episode.

You can tell why people just, they don't,
you go through so many ups and downs and

explosions in your life and crash land
after a while, people are just like,

Jesse: What's next?

Clay: yeah, they just keep their distance.

And I think people, it was like that.

and I also people I was used to coming
out and telling these people all these.

proliferation of like ideas and
just flooding people with that.

And then it all crumbling.

So I think I just kept it all close to
my heart and also in a way when I think

when God moves us, what I remember feeling
is like, it's this dual kind of feeling.

you're so in your life.

Everything you're living, so you're
living, you're so alive, but you

also feel like you're being led, like
you're not really, you're not really

the making the decisions in a sense.

It's like a flow state.

If you want to use secular terminology,
like it's like a flow state.

Jesse: one thing that came to mind
as you were talking about this

dear, about your experiences that
the psalm, I think it's Psalm 46 1.

It says, be still and know that I am God.

Clay: Yeah, I

Jesse: I think in my old life,
I would have thought, okay,

that means I got to be still.

I got to sit still and then
he'll reveal himself to me.

But I have a new understanding.

And then what you just said just
brought it to mind is that God is

Knowable, he wants to be known.

He wants us to know him more
than even we want to know him.

And he created us to be, to know him
and to be in relationship with him.

so he's always drawing us, but it's
our busy ness in our own heads.

It's ours trying to figure it out.

that is our block.

And when he says, be still, to
me, it means shut up, quit, stop.

Clay: think some people
interpret it to me.

Surrender fighting, not just
necessarily be still like actually

physically still, like you said,

but it's actually stop
resisting fighting God.

Jesse: Yeah.

Yeah.

Clay put himself in a position to be,
to be so receptive, to let go of his own

understanding, so to speak, so that he
could break through and, yeah, I'm sorry.

I didn't mean to.

Clay: It's a great segue because what
that kind of does like segues into the

theme of the rest of our life is that.

What I see now sitting here today
with my wife and my baby right

here, is that what God wants for me.

Is so much better than what
I would strive and want for

and once I surrendered to him,

it's just now it's just this journey
of trust, trusting in him and giving

myself over to his will, because that's
what I, that, that's what happened.

And so everything happened really fast.

I was like, we're getting married.

I had a ring.

I proposed at my graduation
party and I was like, we're

not, we're getting married.

She was like, Oh, okay.

what, a year.

And I was like, next week, I
wasn't, we're not wasting any time.

Like we're getting married right now.

So I w we were engaged,

happiest day of my life.

And Casey said yes.

And then a week or two later,
we were married and graduation

party was May 21st of 2023.

And then our wedding
was June 16th of 2023.

we got married at the courthouse and
then we, we moved in together officially

in our new place on July 1st, 2023.

And then it was just like thing out.

It was like thing after thing.

It was like, and again, for
all the listeners, it's like,

whatever season you're in, it
doesn't always happen like this.

And it was, I just, it was
a life, it was a lifetime.

It was like a, it was a 40
years of slog and it was 40

years of slow, gradual change.

And I know now that God was with
me through all that every time.

Jesse: reminds me of the
Israelites, and we're roaming

through the desert for 40 years.

it takes 40 years for
breakthrough sometimes.

Clay: but just that, so what happened
after that was just like, it was like

boot stuff that I had wanted my whole
life had written off as never, I had

written a long ago off that it was
never for me, so having my own place.

I've been at that point,
I've been homeless.

I had lived all over the world.

I've lived out of a backpack.

I've lived out of a car, a tent,
different places in the sailboat.

And then I many times live ended up
crash landing back at my parents.

And was still living at my parents
house when I proposed and all

this happened like I had nothing
I just want to stress that like

prior to me getting saved.

I had lost everything I mean I had
nothing and then all of a sudden

this beautiful woman She said yes
to me, but most importantly I had

god finally I had the real one true
living god and I did not ever know how

to get to him until I had jesus You

And through Jesus, I found
God and now have the Trinity.

And then, so we got married, we
moved in, this all happened in

two months, we moved in together.

And then I got a new job out of nowhere.

I thought I would never, if you go
back and listen to my story, you'll

hear that I got fired for doing new age
practices in my internship, astrology

stuff, the thalascopes or whatever,
terascopes, or what are they called, baby?

Horoscopes.

I, but anyway, I, all of a sudden

Casey was like, Hey, check this place out.

I was looking at therapy places
around where we moved in our

apartment and it looks really good.

It looked like a great place to work.

And I just applied.

And then a week later
I had a job with this.

Brand new private practice.

and, so within a month I was,
we were married, I was married.

I had a little apartment dog and then,
a wife and I had a brand new job.

but all this stuff was
like tangible stuff.

It wasn't like stuff like it was
stuff that I've always wanted, but I

wasn't thinking about it like that.

I was more just happy that I had the Lord.

But one, one, one thing I was going
to share is that when I got back from

Colorado during that point in time where
I hadn't really experienced I, I came back

to a life that was built in the new age,
a room that was full of crap and altars.

And so Casey and I are very different.

She's very more, much more willpower.

I'm more like resistant
to change and stubborn.

And I looked around my room
and I was like, even though I

had found the Lord, I still.

And I had given my life to him
and I was being guided by him.

I still had this other, fight,
this flesh going on where I was

like, I like this, or I like that.

It was really hard because I had, like
Casey mentioned, I meant I spent thousands

of dollars on all kinds of stuff and
I literally had to dismantle like God,

God gives us a spiritual, but we have
to do stuff in the physical realm.

It's not just like a set it and forget it.

Oh, I got, I think a lot of people that
don't are, haven't accepted Christ.

They hear these stories and they
think it's like, Oh, it's done.

Like you're just good.

And then you go to, it's
there was things I had to do.

Jesse: It's a process.

Clay: Yeah.

And so I got home and I had
to dismantle all of that.

So over the course of two or three days,
I would take loads of stuff to the trash.

Out of my room, take pictures off the wall

and it was painful.

it was, it's not like you lose your
pain or you don't have a struggle,

and I was just doing it anyway.

I was going into that painful
areas of just dismantling all

that stuff that I used to believe.

Oh yeah.

And so then I had over the course of
two days, I like had cleared out my room

and my parents were like, Oh, finally.

Thank God.

thank God, whatever's
going on for you is good.

we're behind it.

cause they had been telling me
like, Hey, this is whatever you're

doing, like this needs to stop.

But I finally came down and I had one
item left and I was constantly in this

thing cause I had all this expensive stuff
and I was like, Oh, I'll just give it to

people But then I was like, wait a minute.

No.

Now that I know God, I would not
want to give this to anybody.

I don't want, I don't want anybody
to have this because once you

have Christ, that's all you need.

Jesse: yeah.

Clay: And I was like, I don't want
anybody to have this stuff because

it's going to not lead them to Christ.

So I have to throw it away.

so I got all the way down and I had this
huge Buddha, was the last thing left.

And it was beautiful.

beautifully made, I had You lived in Asia.

Was it from?

it was, I actually got it in
Colorado when I was out there, but

it was, I don't know how big, like
a foot, foot, a high foot wide.

and it was beautifully made
out of I don't know, silver.

It was nice.

And I was like, Oh, this will
be good next to the toilet.

And so I put it, I was like, I put it
there and I was like, and no offense,

if anybody's listening and you're
in, and that's your, believe I'm not,

it's okay, I'm not trying to down you.

I just telling my story and I was
like, Oh, maybe it'll be good.

And I was like, I don't want to see it.

I just don't believe in it, anymore.

and then I was like, maybe
it'd be good out in the garden.

and it just got it was like.

Basically no, this is not good anywhere,
but I didn't want to throw it away.

So I said, you know what, I'm going
to say goodbye to Buddha with love.

I'm going to take it to the ocean.

And throw it in there where it came
from and give it back to the ocean.

It came from the ocean.

It'll go back there.

So I bring this big,

beautiful Buddha thing down in my arms,
down to the, Peter's point, beach.

And it's the last, it's literally
the last piece of new age

paraphernalia, or that I had.

So it was a big moment.

it was like the, it was like the third
day, and it was the last piece of things.

and I could just finally say
goodbye to that life with love, And

so I, people were looking at me.

I was crazy.

I walked out into the ocean with
this Buddha thing over my head.

I walked out as far as I, I don't
know if that was like, there might

call the cops on me or something.

I think, but I didn't care.

I didn't care as I walked
out to my, almost to my neck.

And I just said, back to the
ocean where you came from.

I, I don't believe in you.

And I, thank you for all that,
what you did, but you're no longer.

Part of my life and I just tossed it
in the ocean and I went, I just felt

this weight, obviously wait, leave
God, went back to the shore and just

got on my knees and said, thank you,
God, thank you for clearing up my life.

Thank you for giving me
the peace of your truth.

And I just felt light and, grateful.

And I walked back to my house.

And in my front yard, my neighbor is
standing in the yard, my neighbor who is

like grumpy and doesn't, he's like feuds
with my dad and like they're not friends

and we're not like friends and he doesn't
talk to anybody and he's standing in my

front yard with a painting of a cross.

And he says, I want you to have this.

I heard that you, I heard that you
graduated and, I could show you

it's on our wall right now, but
it's his wife is a painter and.

For whatever reason, they heard that I
graduated, and she selected this painting

she did, of a cross, and it has a part
of a hymn on it, and it says, On a hill,

far away, stood an old rugged cross.

Crosses in gold.

And this is my neighbor that we were
just fighting over, like, Where's the

aeration line is to the, to, and now
he's literally after I just threw the

Buddha away, he's standing in my yard
with this cross painting and the cross

is gold and it has that hymn on it.

And he's I want you to have this.

And I was like, yeah, and he had no idea.

he didn't know I got, I converted,
he had no idea about that.

And he was like, I don't know why my
wife wanted me to give this to you.

And we tried to tell him like a week
later, like he was standing outside

and we, and he, after Clay told me
this story, cause he was like in

tears when he called me and telling me
this story and we went to thank them.

a week later or so, and they were outside,
both of them were outside gardening,

his wife who painted the painting
and then him and Clay's thank you.

I don't think you knew this.

And then all of a sudden the conversation
gets interrupted and they start talking

about something completely different.

And I'm like, Clay, I just don't
even think they know what they did.

Jesse: God sent it to you.

Clay: Yeah, so it was
just one of those things.

They'll never know likely what
that meant to him, it's, it was

like the timing and everything.

It was like, just again, it doesn't
always happen like this, but

God was just revealing himself.

now I get the place of your life.

Now that you've taken all
that stuff and thrown it away.

And you took that activation
in the physical world.

I'm going to reveal myself to you here
in the physical world and just, like

you just, it was just powerful.

and I guess

I don't know where we're at with
time, but basically, I believe now

and you can hear my little daughter,
Emerson rose in the background.

She's about two and a half months
old, greatest gift God ever gave me.

And So once Casey and I got right with
the Lord and he was in that place,

we've just, we've just got, and we got
all that, like all those revealings

and all those gifts, and all those
prayers answered, we just try to keep

him in that top place and love him more
than we love, don't let, don't forget.

That's why this is such a great
opportunity to come on this podcast

is to not forget what he did for
us and that everything in our

life flows from our love for him.

And when things get hard and when
marriage gets hard and it does

and, pressures from life, like to
just remember what he did for us.

And it continues to do

and

it just blows us away and the way
that we're, helping to sanctify each

other, and we're encouraged Casey and
basically the greatest gift I could

ever wish for anybody is to have got
Christ and be able to worship Christ

with the woman you love and these
fruits that we've been able to and

neither of us know anything about this.

We're just, trying to be led by our
church, by our pastor, and we go

to Legacy Church, which is a really
great church with a great pastor.

and we're just trying to follow
the guidance and fellowship

and follow the scripture and
look to the scripture for help.

Because of what the Lord delivered us
from, Casey and I are just really careful

about just maintaining our home and trying
to stay close to the Lord and just catch

ourselves if we find ourselves putting
anything else above him, whether it's each

other or our daughter or school or life or
money, because we know he can do anything.

If he could save us in this way and have
this dramatic change, and I could sit here

today and talk about the joy of marriage,
it's a miracle, but this one scripture

I had for today, and I want Casey to
have a chance to talk and any questions,

this is from Genesis, Genesis, 2, 18.

Then the Lord God said, It is not
good that the man should be alone.

I will make him a helper fit for him.

Now out of the ground, the Lord God
formed every beast of the field and every

bird of the heavens and brought them to
the man to see what he would call them.

And whatever the man called every
living creature, that was his name.

The man gives names to all livestock
and the birds and the heavens

and the beasts of the field.

But for Adam, there was not
found a helper fit for him.

So the Lord God caused a deep
sleep to fall upon the man.

And while he slept, he took one of his
ribs and closed up its place with flesh.

And the rib that the Lord God had
taken from the man he made into a

woman and brought her to the man.

Then the man said, This at last is
bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh.

She shall be called woman
because she was taken out of man.

Therefore man shall leave his father
and his mother and hold fast to his

wife and they shall become one flesh.

And the man and his wife were
both naked and not ashamed.

So that I just Wanted to tie it to
scripture that what I'm experiencing is

a promise of God and he wants good things
for us and he's really made that clear.

and it's really, it's worth worshiping and
glorifying and just bowing down because

What he wants for us is what he has
for us in store, even if we feel

like we don't want it at the time,

it's incredible and
it's real and it's deep.

without getting too much lost
in my own thoughts, I want to

just turn it over to Casey and

give her a chance to,

Jesse: Yeah.

We, go ahead.

Casey, I want to hear, what
you've been thinking as you've

been listening to Clay talk.

Clay: Yeah, I feel like it's, it's
amazing watching his transformation.

becoming a Christian and him coming
to church with me and wanting a child.

And, before, when I was in my other
marriage, I couldn't imagine having

a child because I always felt like
I can't take care of the husband

at the time that I had and a child.

And so it was a miracle to me to want
to have a family because I always felt

like it would be too much, but I didn't
feel like it's too much with God.

Yeah.

And we prayed and trusted and we
have a beautiful little girl now.

And she was, I went into labor for her
the, a year from when we were engaged.

Exactly.

we were engaged May 21st, 2023.

I went into labor with her May 21st, 2024.

She was born May 22nd, 2024.

So it's just a miracle, like how
God works, in a year and one day.

We went from, not even being married
to having a little girl and being

married and having a family way.

God wants us to be obsessed
and, yeah, she's just perfect.

the whole, her whole story is amazing
to me because, the day after we

found out, we were expecting her,
I got a text from my ex husband.

Which he never texts me.

And he said, Hey, I found
something of yours in the basement.

And I was like, what is it?

And he holds up my baby toy, a stuffed
cow that I had when I was the baby.

And I was like, he's do you
want me to ship it to you?

And I was like, yes.

And he had no idea.

I, we hadn't told anybody
that I was pregnant.

And so just an amazing, I knew it was
God, God's like this baby's yours.

Like I'm giving you this baby.

And Yeah, she has a little
cow theme nursery now.

And, it's so sweet to see like God's
promises fulfilled, And yeah, when she was

born, I had prayed, I got, I want a quick.

I don't want to be, in there for 24
hours induced, like they were saying

I might have to be and all this stuff.

and God really, he showed up for
us in that moment in those moments.

And, it was the funniest thing that
during the, during the, during while I

was in labor in the hospital, all the
nurses, they kept walking into the room.

They'd say, Hey, It smells amazing here.

Why does it smell so good?

And I'm like, I haven't
showered in a week.

No.

We weren't I hadn't showered.

He hadn't showered recent like that day.

And then he we didn't have
we wash our clothes and hypo

allergenic, scent free stuff.

Because the baby you don't want
to have a lot of Fragrance.

I didn't have any perfume on because I
knew it wasn't good to have fragrance

on you when you're, having a baby.

I didn't, no candles, no
aromatherapy, I had nothing.

And I'm like, I have no idea.

And, it was like, not just
one nurse, it was like four.

It was over the top.

every person that came in the delivery
room was like, what does that smell?

It smells so good.

it smells, and I'm like, and I had
no idea what they were talking about.

And even, the three days later.

They would say, oh yeah, like I
would pass you in the hallway and I

would just say, oh you smell so good.

They would call us like
the good smelling couple.

It's really weird.

We just kept hearing in my heart,
it's, a pleasing aroma to God,

Jesse: Yeah.

Clay: God is a pleasing aroma.

And he, that's how he showed up for us.

it was just like a way for him, I
think, to just say to us, Hey, I'm

here and people know I'm here too.

they didn't know it was him, but
they knew something was there.

And they thought it was
us, but we knew better.

It was not us.

And just those miraculous kinds of little
winks from God, it's like, Hey, I'm here.

I'm showing up for you.

And don't be afraid.

don't be afraid.

And it was scary after she was born.

it she needed to be on oxygen.

She was in the nursery like her vitals
were being monitored every second.

I couldn't hold her right away.

Gary, she had some
difficulty with breathing.

And so she had to be rushed off to the
nursery to make sure she would be okay.

And, but I clay just felt very like
confident God was looking out for us.

And she was fine after a little while.

So that's just to say God
still shows up for us today.

And I know that he's, with us as a family.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Every time I see my wife, I know
God loves me because he gave me her

and life can be really challenging.

It's this

regenerative process, that's
happening for both of us.

And, it's just great.

we've got friends that are believers
and, God's just populated our lives

with a lot of people to help us.

Bible studies and small groups
and even this podcast to come

on here and be able to remember.

It's crazy how fast we forget what
God's done for us and we move on to

the next thing and the next thing.

so we're really grateful.

to tell our story individually
and together and really

want to thank you for this.

Jesse: I want to thank you because
it's been such a great experience

hearing your story, both of
you, and then there's a couple.

And, yeah, the God throughout the
Bible, he would tell his people to,

build, These Ebenezers, these markers or
monuments to, to remind them of what he

had done for them and that so that when
their children asked, why is this here?

they could teach their children
what God had done for them.

Cause we get, as human beings,
we get busy, we get distracted.

We get, obsessed with things and we can't
easily forget even the greatest things

that happen and, we can become ungrateful.

So telling our stories and sharing
with other people is not just a way to,

edify other people, but it also edifies
us because it draws us closer as we

remember all the good he's done for us.

So I really appreciate y'all taking
the time to do this and being so

forthright and open and honest and,
vulnerable to, to share your deepest

heart and it really means a lot to me
and I'm sure everybody who hears it.

The Holy Spirit's going
to use it, I believe.

Clay: me too.

Thank you.

And God bless you.

and, just want to say one final
prayer, just over anyone listening

and over anyone that is married or
unmarried and struggling to find love.

I pray that you find God first And pray
that God, will help you draw you and.

Just want to really pray a prayer
over anyone who feels alone

to know that God is with you.

He really is.

And if you're anywhere on the
spectrum of, believing in him or not

believing in him, just know it's okay.

And he loves you and he's drawing you.

And I pray that all the different
testimonies on this podcast, be heard

by the people that need to hear them.

And I know they will.

And just pray for, for all the things
that God is doing and for his whole

church and for the whole world.

in Jesus name.

Amen.

Jesse: thank you, Clay.

Any final words, Casey?

Clay: No, just thank you.

And, we look forward to
hearing more testimonies.

Jesse: All right.

thank you both.

And, I look forward to
seeing Emmy grow up.

Clay: Yeah, us too.

Thank you, Jesse.

Have a great day.

Speaker 2: We hope you've
been blessed by today's story.

In case you haven't noticed, there
are no advertisements on this podcast,

and we hope to keep it that way.

So if you've heard something that you
think could help someone you know, please

share it using the link in the show notes.

Also, if you will give Faith and Purpose a
positive review on your podcast platform,

you could help more people find it.

You will probably never know how
that small effort can make a big

difference in someone's life,
but our Heavenly Father knows.

Speaking of sharing, if you know a Jesus
follower with a story to tell, please send

them a link to Faith and Purpose Podcast.

It may encourage them to tell their story.

That person may even be you.

Our only criteria is
that Jesus be glorified.

Most Christians don't share their
faith because they mistakenly think

their story is not interesting enough,
or that it's self centered to talk

about themselves, or that they are not
competent to explain the gospel correctly.

But none of that is relevant.

If Jesus has changed your
life, you have a story to tell.

All of our stories are completely unique.

No one has a story like yours, and you
may be the only one who can reach someone

else through telling your experience.

So don't be intimidated.

A story is just that, a true account
of your own experience, and no one

can disagree with your experience.

When we tell what Jesus has done in
our lives, we are being obedient to his

command to go into all the world and
preach the gospel to every creature.

It's not about theology, and it's not
about how interesting or special you are.

It's all about Jesus.

So when you're ready to tell how Jesus
has impacted your life, you can let Jesse

know at his ministry website, jesseduke.

net.

There you can download guidelines
that will make it easy to

prepare to tell your story.

Thank you for listening today and Shalom.