Faith & Purpose

Cailin: Welcome everyone to
Faith and Purpose podcast.

Each episode of this podcast contains the
personal testimony of an ordinary person

transformed by an extraordinary God.

My name is Kaylin and I'm
here to introduce this podcast

for my friend Jesse Duke.

Jesse is a husband, father, author,
life recovery guide, lay counselor,

and small group leader, but his
most important role is disciple.

As a disciple of Jesus.

Jesse created this podcast to help other
believers tell their faith stories.

We'll be hearing the personal
testimonies of all sorts of people

who have one thing in common,
Jesus has transformed their lives.

Jesus used parables because he created
us to learn best through story.

And as we listen to how God has worked
in others lives, we find encouragement

and inspiration for our own faith walk.

Whether you are already a believer or
just a curious seeker, we believe that

as you listen to these stories, you will
be encouraged on your own faith journey.

We are sure that God can speak to you
through one of these episodes and that you

will see that our heavenly father truly
works all things together for our good.

When we simply love and trust him.

If you are currently going through a
trial, we believe that you will come

to see that your troubles, heartbreaks,
and failures are not gravestones, but

stepping stones into new life in Christ.

Here's Jesse with today's guest.

Andrea: Welcome everybody to
Faith and Purpose Podcast.

Today I have my friend Andrea Sinclair
who's here to share her story and

I'm really looking forward to it.

How you doing Andrea?

Jesse: Doing just great, Jesse.

Thank you.

What an honor to be here.

Thank you for asking, , and putting this
together so we can share about Jesus.

Andrea: Well I'm going to give you
all the time you need to tell us

what you got to share about the
Lord and I look forward to it.

So Tell us how it started.

So

, Jesse: with parents that
were both preacher kids.

So both of my grandfathers were
Southern Baptist ministers.

And so very early on, I was
introduced to church and the Bible.

and following the Lord.

, and it was really, , kind of, , the
thing that it, when I look back, not

at the time, but when I look back,
is the very thing that kept me from

probably going down many additional
roads, , beyond the roads that I went

down to try and find something that
would satisfy the way that the Lord does.

So, being the firstborn came with this
self assigned protector, gene that

is, is, was true in my blood anyway.

, so it was my job to make sure that my
siblings were always taken good care of.

It was my job to make sure
that, My parents were doing what

they were supposed to be doing.

It was my job to make sure
that, , everything stayed, , even

tempered, , all self assigned
at a very, very, very young age.

So my identity was rooted in
that, , from probably as far

back as five or six years old.

You know, anytime something went
on with my brother, it was, it

was my job, not my mother's.

Anytime my mother was suffering, it
was my job, not hers or the Lord's.

So there was a lot of discovery
around that, that, , would then add

to some things that, that came in
later on, but, , had a younger brother

and a younger sister, and we lived
a life that on the outside appeared

to be pretty put together, , with.

My parents being musicians, they always
had a, what we'd call a secular job,

and then they had a church job because
typically they were building something

like an arts program or an opera
company or something of that nature

that they would need to supplement
their income around with church work.

So we spent.

Mondays, Wednesdays,
Sundays all day in church.

So, my resentment as a child
for the church came in early.

, most certainly because, you know,
kids want to be out doing fun things

and, and, , we, we kind of saw
that as a little bit of punishment.

, regularly until we were doing
something fun like going to camp

or something of that nature.

But, , like I said, on the outside,
we looked like an ideal family, but

on the inside, there was a lot of
suffering that that would go on.

My father suffered from.

Mental illness.

, Early on, right after I was born, , my
mother and father, , were in a

situation where he was in a new job
with some new pressure and it was

a little much for him to handle and
he ended up in a mental hospital.

And when that happened, , the
family would, you know, each time

this would happen, they would sweep
in and see what needed to happen

to take care of my mom and me.

And then when my brother came along,
my sister came along and get things

tidied up and looking okay again, and
then they would, off they would go.

, but in this instance, it was, , my
mother recounts that if they had stuck

with the diagnosis given to him that
first time right after I was born when

he was in the mental institution where
the doctor said to my mother, Mrs.

Sinclair, your husband is
a paranoid schizophrenic.

And if I were you, I would take that
baby and go as far away as possible.

So, that was not in the minds of my
father's parents, of course, but it was

in the minds of my mother's parents, and
they, , my mother also tells the story of

hearing that information and then hearing
his father, my dad's father, pretty much

talk them into giving him a depression
label instead of a schizophrenia label.

And then having, , his parents say,
Anne Harrod, we'll make sure this works.

We'll get him the help he needs.

And her parents saying, you need to pack
up and do what the other doctor said.

To the degree that my mother tells
the story of bearing all of that.

She has a husband and a new baby.

and a very abusive father who literally
beat her in her own home and told her

she was going to leave him and that
there was no choice in the matter.

But my mother said, well, the
Bible says that we're married

and what God has joined together.

And what he talked about
was being unequally yoked.

So that was a discussion
that I would hear play out.

On the phone in person, that
kind of thing, pretty much for

the rest of my young adult life,
it was, it was always mentioned,

but my mother had the conviction.

She is one of those that is very much
a rule follower, very much, , grew up

in the Calvinist, , type of environment
and was buying into, this is what

the Lord says about marriage and I
can't leave my husband, he is sick.

So, after that, , there would be numerous
occasions where he would end up back in

a mental institution, or he would end up
in prison, or he would end up, , running

away, basically, and we wouldn't hear
from him, and then we'd get a call that

he was, you know, In New York City and he
lost time again and that kind of thing.

So, his illness became more and more
difficult to hide once things like

the news and newspapers and more
visibility became a part of their world.

So, , in my young teen, , life, I would
say 11 or 12 years old, I remember coming

home from school and, , I would always
cheat a little bit and watch TV and then

do my homework, , but, , I turned the
TV on and they had all these, they would

have these little commercials that would
say, , you know, here's what's on the

news at six and they give you a blurb.

And I see my dad being arrested.

In a bank down on Grandin Road, which
is like five minutes from our house.

And I'm like, Oh, that's
why mom's not here.

What in the world is going on?

There was a note from her saying,
I'll be back, which never happened.

She taught music in our home.

So she was always at home
when we came home from school.

So that type of activity, when it started
to play out in the news, , layered

in to me more of this, I've got to
be able to control my environment.

Somehow, some way, what
can I do to do that?

So I very much was a
self starter early on.

I had a newspaper route.

I made sure my brother had a
newspaper route because with those

repercussions legally with my dad, , we
always had help from the church.

, people were always very kind
and my mother was always.

a very hard worker, but
there would still be lack.

When you're, when, when, when you've got
legal bill, bills and all those things,

everyone knows that's very costly.

So, , anyway, , we became pretty
self sufficient, , early on.

And made our own little bit of money
to keep ourselves, , sustained.

And with that type of thing
came exploration around other

things to remedy the craziness.

, so, I found alcohol at a very early age
and learned that that gave me not only

this feeling inside of freedom, but it
appeared to give me a lot more freedom on

the outside where my peers were concerned.

Because if I could Arrange for alcohol
to be found somewhere and gather it.

Then that meant more
people were around me.

I had more friendships and I
became the life of the party.

You know, I've always had a
lean towards humor, , even in

the most dire of circumstances.

And so I would use that to build
that camaraderie, but with that.

came the realization that something was
a little bit different about me inside.

, I would notice things like, I
wonder why that person can say,

Oh, I don't want any more of that.

I'm not gonna, I mean, and I never,
I typically didn't say that until

it was way too late, you know?

So, , so that became, I had early
repercussions of, , with my drinking

and so I was like, okay, I've got a
little I've got to learn how to keep

that under control while I'm controlling
all these other things around me

and, or seemingly to control them.

And it just, the more that went on, the
more out of control it would become.

So I had little scrapes, , and
then some big scrapes, but finally.

, through prompting from, , , my
mother's brother who was vital in

my upbringing as a father figure.

, he said, Hey, why don't you, why don't
you move to Atlanta, , move close to

us and, and, and let's let everything
calm down, , and see what you can do.

We've got a house that you can
live in and, , your granny's

there and it'll be helpful.

So I picked up and did, did the whole move
from my hometown at an early age and I

Andrea: this, this was
after high school, or?

Jesse: after high school.

I left, I graduated from high school.

I left home when I was, I had just
turned 17 and lived with my best friend

and, I was constantly putting my mother
in a, in a situation where she would

need to make a decision, either my dad
stayed around or I stayed around, but

the two could not coincide because it
was just, he, he wasn't reliable, he,

he caused these problems and, and all of
this, so, , that type of, that type of,

, pressure in the home became too much.

And she took me up on the offer and, , and
said, well, then you're going to need to

go because he's not going anywhere yet.

and he had just gotten back from prison.

We had just been through, you know, just,
there was a lot of humility in my mind

to go in to see him on Sundays, people
from the church taking us to see him.

And it was a high visibility
thing because of who they were.

And so my pride and ego.

Had started to play a factor in the
way I operated very early on , the,

the other, the other really interesting
thing is while all this was going

on, and I found this to be true
current day, you know, when the, when

a family is going through something
like this, there are always those.

And I'm a crier, so I used to apologize
for that, but I don't anymore.

, there are people in the
church that were so very kind.

And they truly were the
handsome feet of Christ.

You know, there, it was a very comforting
thing, yet in my teenager mind, I felt

like a charity case, you know, but there
were many instances, even with, as far as

my mother was working, we wouldn't have
had a Christmas tree if some kind couple

from the church hadn't given it to us.

We wouldn't have had certain meals if
someone hadn't dropped off a turkey,

you know, so that demonstration
along with, Superweek, which was the

teenagers, , camp, , at Hargrave Military
Academy, someone paid for me to go.

That was when I initially
gave my life to the Lord.

That would have never happened
had someone not done that.

So that was my first brush with
this is what it feels like in those

few moments to really be free.

And I definitely felt that.

I remember what I was wearing.

I remember where I was standing and I
remember how I felt when I walked down.

So it was very powerful, but, but, you
know, With Not having a bookend, so to

speak, of someone to partner up with and
say, here's what it looks like to continue

to walk, which wasn't necessarily there.

It became, okay, now what do I do?

I just listen to these sermons,
but I don't understand what's

happening and all those things.

And why do bad things keep happening?

This doesn't make sense.

If he's as good as they say
he is, what's going on here?

So, that level of defiance
started, started kicking in

pretty, pretty full speed ahead.

anyway, my, my grandmother, who was
very instrumental in my life, , wrote

me letters on a regular basis and, and
she, in her own, even though it was

very legalistic in her approach and the
Calvinist mindset, in her best of her

heart, she just wanted me to know Jesus.

So, I know that that was her objective,
but there were, there were tones

of a punishing God for the things
that I was doing that started to

read through in her letters and
in the way she would talk to me.

And that would only kick
this level of defiance in me.

Up one more notch because then it
became, well, how dare you tell me,

you know, it's just that, that type
of thing goes on with a lot of folks.

I know, I know I'm not alone, but
it just kind of feeds on itself.

So with all of that, , one of the largest
points of contention once I moved to

Atlanta They knew that I was living a
homosexual lifestyle and it was in their

mind that they could in some way change
me from what was going on and reorder

all of that and everything would be fine.

But what we know is the Lord is
the only one that can do that

and he has done that in my life.

Andrea: Mm hmm.

Jesse: But at that time, again,
there was this identity crisis.

You know, people around saying, here's
how you should be instead of saying,

here's how God designed you to be.

Let's think about what is
feeding your mind around alcohol,

drugs, homosexual behaviors.

, sexual promiscuity.

Let's think about what's feeding
all of that, because it's the lack

of identity in Jesus that we know.

that doesn't make me a victim, it
just makes me someone who, that

was my experience with people
around me not necessarily knowing

how to talk about those things.

Andrea: Right.

Jesse: Current day, I think that
there is, there is more openness

to speaking about those things.

And you can literally walk people through
scripture and say, honey, here, here's

where this might've gotten off track.

Andrea: Mm hmm.

Jesse: and you may have thought just
from this, this, and this, that,

that that's what this means, but, but
here's who you are seated in Christ.

So, anyway, the level of defiance grew,
, one, one of the regrets that I have is

that when my grandmother passed away, , we
were not on the best of terms, , but now

I talk to her, you know, and, and, and
I know that she's with our, our heavenly

father and, and I'm able to say things
like, I know you did your best, but

look now, you know, at this beautiful,
beautiful thing that we can share.

You're there.

I'm here.

I'll see you someday.

And we'll all rejoice over it.

So, , but those, those years
in Atlanta were very formative.

, I learned how to control, I say control,
but I learned how to manage at that

point the drinking and the drugs.

, and became like the weekend warrior
and would do my best with all of that.

But then, , the idol of money set in
because my job started going very well.

And there was an opportunity
to move up and on.

And so I left there and
went to South Florida.

And just in case any of the listers
aren't aware, South Florida in the

90s, , was a place that, , everything
that you see in every movie is true.

Andrea: hmm.

Miami Vice.

Jesse: I'm pretty sure I
experienced most of it.

So, so, . The thing is, I had money, I
had access, I had all of those things,

but I would find myself over and over and
over again, just drawn at some point to

my knees saying, God, if you are there,
if you are there, just help me, just

help me not do this, help me not do that.

Andrea: So, even while you were in
the midst of all the craziness, you

were asking God to help you manage it.

Jesse: Absolutely.

Absolutely.

Those, those, , what, what, , , I've
heard people call them foxhole prayers.

They were so real for
me, , over and over again.

So, , there were many years of that.

And I, when I look back and, and
kind of look at those years from,

from the early 90s until, , 2006.

That, that span of time became, , just
managing through the next, , point of

surrender in saying, okay, I'm, I'm,
I'm just not going to drink this week.

Okay.

I'm not going to do.

I'm not going to do cocaine for a month.

I need to save more money.

I've just blown through
everything in my savings, my stock

options, the whole nine yards.

I'm selling stock in
order to feed my family.

This has got to stop.

I need some help.

Oh, I'll check into this detox
and that'll help for this weekend.

I moved all over the country and,
and, , went through that type

cycle over and over and over again.

And, , the final move , came to
Fernandina Beach from my hometown.

, I kind of looked around and, and
I said, Hey mom, how about this?

We'll go to Florida and you won't have
to put up with dads putting you through.

Because they at that
time had, had divorced.

Or they had separated, and my sister was
struggling with drugs and alcohol as well.

And so being the great savior
that I am in everyone's life,

I was like, Mom, just retire.

You can come retire to Florida.

You won't have to work so hard.

So she, she tells that the Lord
was very clear with her and

said, that is what you are to do.

And she made the move.

That was pretty much the beginning
of the end of, , all of my

craziness with all of that.

, we arrived in Fernandina in 2004,
and I moved here with, , a job that

came with all the bells and whistles
and all the money of, or all the

promise of more and more money.

And I think I was probably, in position
maybe a month when I'd already identified

who was doing what, where I could get
what, and I was off to the races again.

At the same time, , my sister was
struggling with an opioid addiction.

She was, , she was one of the, one of
the folks that experienced Oxycontin

when it was being prescribed at a level
of, , I remember seeing a, a jar from the

actual, , production line of Oxycontin
with her prescription tabbed over it.

And it was, it was literally a huge,

Andrea: Mm hmm.

Jesse: It was just absolute insanity.

She had had, , gastric bypass surgery and
to manage pain, they had prescribed that.

And as a result, continued
on, , with that battle.

So, , we were both, , definitely
in the throes of, of

alcoholism and drug addiction.

, she was married, , had a, , child and
my mom was just, you know, Working

herself to death to keep my dad afloat
even though she was separated from him

and then keep my sister's family afloat
financially and so this was a way to

Quote rescue her from all of that.

So Anyway, once once we got here, I
I started having problems early on My

sister had big problems going on and
and because Hannah Needed to help her

daughter , mom went back home, , to
Roanoke to be with her for a little

bit and help out and left me alone.

And that, , took me to a, a new level in
my, , drugging at that point and drinking.

So, , I ended up injuring my
back pretty severely and, , I was

here, , And she was there and I
didn't know very many people here.

So I was literally paying employees
to help me out, , get me to doctor's

appointments and that kind of thing.

So I patched myself up a little bit, but.

It was not enough to hang on to the job.

So, , I eventually lost the job.

, the partners that brought me
here were very kind and gracious

and, , said basically, Andrew,
we, we can't do this and neither

can you, you've got to get help.

So my version of help was I'll go
to AA a little bit, I'll put a patch

on it, but I've got to get myself
another job because I have all

these responsibilities, you know.

So I left Fernandina and I went to Tampa,
Florida, , to work as an operating partner

for, , a company there and When I did
that, , I didn't have a place to live.

I think I had maybe 300 that I had saved.

So I was living in my car and in hotel
rooms and telling myself, this is,

this is in my, my thinking, telling
myself that I could get on my feet.

And then get an apartment, get
things going, that kind of thing.

I actually had family in Tampa who, , I
called and they had a conversation

with my mom and mom kind of told
them where I was and in my disease.

And, , I asked if I could stay with
them and they, I'm so grateful to

this day that they said no, because I
probably would have, you know, gone.

No telling what I would have done to
them, you know, financially or whatever.

So, so anyway, I, I finally did find
a place to stay through a friend

and then everything seemed okay.

, but, , fast forward a couple,
three months into the job.

I identified an employee that looked
like he did the things that I enjoy.

And I approached him and, and he said,
yeah, he said, , I can take care of you.

And so I was off to the
races again with cocaine.

, he, he came to me one day and
he said, look, , I can't keep

up with what you're doing.

So I'm going to introduce you to my guy.

So, so he introduces me
to his guy and his guy is.

And,, I end up running cocaine from,
, Tampa to Clearwater and Clearwater

to Tampa because I'm working in Tampa
and living in Clearwater and keeping

everything okay as far as that's
concerned, meaning I'm not owing thousands

and thousands of dollars at the end of
the week because I'm able to do that.

I'm able to run it back and forth
and, , , eventually that ran out.

, Eventually, your drug, no matter
what it is, will always out you.

It's been my experience.

So, , I don't know why it was this
particular weekend other than the Lord

was just lining up what needed to happen.

You know, back when I was knit in my
mother's womb, he, he, he just knew

this weekend, which is so beautiful.

Andrea: hmm.

Mm

Jesse: But, , I started drinking
and, and at this point I was

smoking cocaine or smoking crack.

, white people say they smoke cocaine.

They dress it up.

I was smoking crack.

Plain and simple.

So, , anyway,, this was on a Thursday.

And fast forward to Tuesday, I
called some people here in Fernandina

and I said, I don't know why I
haven't died yet, but I'm not dead.

And if I don't get help.

I don't guess I'm gonna
die, but this is awful.

I need help.

So they, , were able to find a treatment
center, line everything up, called me

back, said, Hey, can you get to Ocala?

We'll come and get you there.

I said, yes.

, there was a man from a treatment center.

I don't know what the name of the
treatment center is to this day, but he

stayed on the phone with me for probably.

I've got to say, at least two hours,

Andrea: Mm.

Jesse: just talking to me, just
talking to me about hanging in there

and just getting there and they were
going to help and all these things.

And so fast forward, I get to Ocala
to meet the friends from here who

are helping me and they get a call
and they look at me in the backseat.

I'm still drinking, still smoking crack.

And they say, Andrea, you're not
going to that treatment center.

I'm like, what?

You've lost your job and you don't
have insurance and we have no idea

what we're going to do with you.

So I was like, Oh, great.

You know, that type of attitude.

And I was like, at that point
I was like, you know what?

I just don't care anymore,
whatever, whatever.

And I remember walking around
the backside of this tree.

They had stopped at a convenience store.

And then I was like, You know, I
really do want help, so I don't know

how this is going to work out, but I
really don't want to do this anymore.

And I think that that was a form of
a prayer, , because I got back in

the car and they were like, we've
got a spot for you to go, but Andrea,

it's not going to be anything like
what you've ever been through.

So I was like, okay, I'm fine.

That's good.

I was all happy and,
, relieved at the same time.

So.

We pulled into Gateway down on Stockton
Street in Jacksonville, and I threw

my crack pipe across the road, and
they walked me inside, and the door

buzzed, and, , a very sweet woman at
the nurse's station said, Sit down.

Let's talk.

So, , everyone was very kind.

, I was, , the, the detox situation around
that was pretty intense because the

cocaine that I was smoking, the crack
that I was smoking was laced with heroin.

Andrea: Mm

Jesse: So I had alcohol, heroin, cocaine,
benzos, all these things, but the heroin

took a little Longer to detox from

Andrea: mm

Jesse: and , so I was in the detox
center for 12 days I found out later

that all of those those last few days
weren't necessary medically They were

more necessary for a bed to open up

Andrea: mm

Jesse: next door.

So for treatment, so a woman by the
name of Miss Virginia Thomas came

and sat on the end of my bed while
I was in detox and And talk to me

about the Lord and talk to me about
the program of Alcoholics Anonymous.

Andrea: mm

Jesse: And, , she, she would always
say to me, baby, there's the big

book and there's the big, big book.

So those are the two things you need.

That's so, so, , I got over into treatment
and, , The first class that I went to

was, , one that on a Tuesday that she,
, was in charge of and there were all

these people waiting to speak to her.

And she said, Hey, Hey,
Hey, and called me over.

And she said, come here.

And she looked at me and she
said, you're going to make it.

And I saw God in her eyes.

So from that moment forward, I had
that much belief that I was going

to make it, and I knew that God
had said that to me through her.

I knew that.

I just knew that.

So, that made everything else
around me a little less crazy,

but it was a crazy experience.

I was in, I was in a room with two
other women, and, I snored at that

time and I woke up the first night
with a woman on top of me like

shaking me going, you're snoring.

You gotta stop.

I'm like, Oh my gosh, this
woman's going to kill me.

So just crazy living, but it
was exactly what I needed.

, I found, , everyone was
so vital to my walk.

, the hands and feet of Christ
that were within that facility.

They were just amazing, , just
amazing when I think about that.

The Lord appointed everyone
at that time, like it says in

Esther, for such a time as this.

It was just, it was just then.

, the man that, the UPS driver that had
killed a child while drinking on the job,

, made sure that I had socks because I
didn't have any socks, I just had sandals,

and , he made sure I had a jacket.

, just very kind.

He helped me take notes because
my brain was just not It just

had not reconnected to the point
where I could focus on anything.

So, , I had, , some of the most
incredible experiences there and

the Lord knew exactly what I needed.

And, , by his grace, , I, this,
this year we'll celebrate 18

years without a drink or a drug.

, and, , so that's a complete gift.

, Came out of, , treatment and my sister
and my niece and my mother picked me

up and I didn't know that my sister
and niece had moved here to Fernandina.

I was so excited.

, she was, , on the right
track trying to be sober.

We thought, and, , we found out
later that was not the case.

She actually came here
with a lot of drugs.

, but, but we did our best.

My mom laid the law down.

, and said the condition of being in
this household is that you go to two

meetings a day and, , no drinking, no
drugging, and if you do, you're out.

And that

Andrea: mo your mother said this

Jesse: my mother said
this, and that, that,

Andrea: she was familiar
with recovery then, huh?

Jesse: she, she was absolutely, she had,
, when I had attempted to get sober, this

is funny, , when I attempted to get sober,
, we went to an AA meeting and she went

with me and someone in the room said to
my mother, why don't you come back here?

And they were talking about the Al Anon
and I was like, wait, where's she going?

And they were like, no, you stay here.

She's gonna go back there.

So, so she got connected with one of those
Al Anon mamas that you know, or have black

belts and and she she knew exactly what to
say So and it was exactly what we needed

and and and we did for for a long while
, I, I stayed sober, , my, my sister really

struggled and was in and out of treatment
in and out of situations that became

pretty perilous, but, , fast forward,
I, I started putting things together.

And, most importantly, I started
exhausting every other road but Jesus.

So I explored Buddhism.

I explored some kind of
yoga breathing thing.

I explored, , Ram Dass and all
this open mind concept stuff.

And in the meantime, I had Miss
Virginia with the big, big book.

Talking to me, talking scripture
to me all along, and which I

understand now is just seed planting.

She, you know, the scriptures talk
about, I am, I am no quoter of scripture.

I'm just learning the Bible
over the last few years, , and

still, still just exploring.

, but there's, there's scripture in
the Bible that talks about some

people plant the seed, some people
water it, you know, and it goes on.

Well, well, she cast seed
over and over and over again.

I believe she, she did that knowing
that's what she was doing and

for so many did that completely.

of course, wanting us to be a part
of the kingdom, but at the same time,

knowing that it was more important
for her to stand true to the Lord

working through her to plant seed and
cast seed, , than anything that was

more important than anything else.

So that's, that's the role model I had,
, which I'm so grateful for at the time.

Again, at the time I didn't
recognize it, but now I know so

that when I run across people.

It used to be that I wanted to be able
to plant the seed, water it, watch it,

grow it, put grow lights on it, you
know, put some type of, , , fertilizer

on it, keep it going, keep it growing,
keep it going, and then say, Oh,

look, but, but now I know it's just,
you know, I, I just plant the seed.

I just, I just plant the seed, that's all.

So that demonstration was intense, but I
was exhausting all these other avenues.

And, , so I'll fast forward to, , , 2016.

, I, , I graduated from college in 2013.

, All of the.

Realizations around what I could
and couldn't do in my mind, , kind

of led to, Hey, I've never been to
college, so I think I'll go to college.

It's a great place for me
for three and a half years.

I got two degrees, , and, , really
enjoyed being in school.

, graduated in 2013 and then, , went
to work for an entrepreneur now down

in Jacksonville and enjoyed, , some
tremendous success with that, with

that family, but, , things were
really rocky with my sister and, , She

and, , my niece and my mother.

And myself were all
living, , in the same place.

And I was, , doing the best that I could.

, to contribute to the household
and, , keep things together.

, but my sister was in and out and in and
out, you know, she would leave for periods

of time and then she would come back.

So it was becoming apparent that that
was going to continue to be a tremendous

amount of upset around all of that
and, , and dealing with her daughter.

So my focus became
damage control and still.

, having people in my life saying,
Hey Andrea, you know, the ultimate

solution is here in the Lord.

, why don't you just, you know,
give this a try and, and cast

your burden, so to speak.

And I'm like, nah, I'm good over here.

You know, I'm not good
with that guy right now.

You know, I don't
understand what's going on.

And, and this God, this God
thing, I just don't know about.

So, I was in a state of rebellion,
and, , so, fast forward, , , she was

at a point where, , once again, she
was coming and visiting with us on the

weekends, and she came on this particular
weekend and, and spent it with us,

and, , , with her daughter and, , that
was on, mom took her home on Sunday.

And then on Tuesday night, , on Tuesday
night, we were eating dinner, me, my

mom and Hannah, my sister's daughter,
and there was a knock on the door and

I went and answered the door and there
were two, , Jacksonville Sheriff's

Office detectives, homicide detectives.

And they said, , they were doing death
notification and they basically said,

, we're here to let you know that, , Mary
Tenette Sloan, , is the victim of a

self inflicted gunshot to the head.

And we're ruling this as a suicide
unless something comes back differently.

So in the doorway with those two
detectives standing there and my mother

and my niece literally falling to
their knees in that moment, it was not.

Oh God help me, it was, I don't ever
want anything to do with this God

ever again, hearing this behind me,
listening to what I just listened to.

I don't want anything to do with this guy.

So we talked through with
them what was going on.

I made a couple of phone calls just to
get some help with my mom and my niece.

, and dear friends of the family came
over to, to be with them while I, I

just needed a break from all of it.

Plus I'd been sick the few days prior.

I later found out I'd had a heart attack
on Saturday night and didn't know it.

It was very strange.

Andrea: Wow.

Jesse: But yeah, it's crazy.

So anyway, I went up to my place
And I was saying to this god.

I was like, you know what I cannot
imagine that Anything that i've

ever heard about your love is true.

I don't ever I was screaming I don't
ever want anything to do with you again.

I don't want anybody to ever say anything
to me about you again We're done.

We are done.

I'm grabbing things that I need And I
go down the steps, I lived in a little

studio apartment behind my, the house
that mom and Hannah and my sister lived

in and, , I came down the stairs and
went through the garage and came out,

was getting ready to head out the door
and the friend of the family that had

come over stopped me and he put his hands
on my shoulders, I'll never forget it.

He said, Andrea, you're going to
want to turn away from God, you're

going to want to run from him.

Don't do it.

Don't do it.

And in that moment.

I saw God in his eyes.

I literally saw God in his eyes and
I could feel, what I know today to

be the Holy Spirit, but I could feel
this ribbon of peace is the only way

that I can describe that momentarily.

Enough to know that I wasn't
completely closed off.

At that point, that my heart
had not completely hardened.

Thank you, Lord.

Thank you, Lord.

I am so grateful that in that moment that
a messenger came and did that because so

many people, you know, I hear people that
have what would be perceived as a hardened

heart, and it is literally heartbreaking.

You know, so the next several years were
a walking back to who is this God that

everyone seems to put so much reliance in.

Who is he to me?

Who is he to me?

So, , I, I'd started listening to some
different pastors on YouTube, different

podcasts, and open to the idea of God,
but I was still very much trapped in

this God of religion, so to speak.

So I, , I had not had an up close
and personal experience that

I could say was tangible yet.

But, , in the way, in his kind way, we
were talking about this earlier today

with some friends, in his kind way of
stripping away the things that, that

keep us, From being totally reliant on
him, things were being stripped away.

The job was dying down.

It was obviously going to be a change.

My niece graduated from, from high
school and was going to be going to

college and mom was pretty settled.

We'd had a little bit of time between
the death of my sister and the, the

daily, all of that was lessening.

, so, but.

At the same time, still did not
have, I didn't have clarity and I

didn't have a full reliance on God.

So then the things that when you strip
away the preoccupation with the job and

money and doing things for other people
and, and staying in a whole mode of people

pleasing to those around you because
you don't want anybody to hurt that

when that starts to get stripped away.

Then you're looking around saying,
I was looking around saying,

well, I don't know what to do now.

I don't know what's next.

I don't, I don't have any clue.

So that lead, that led me down the road
of, well, , nothing's really sparking,

nothing's really coming to the surface
that I should be doing right now.

, so that must mean that I'm
not doing something right.

I'm probably not worth much.

I'm probably pretty worthless.

Maybe my sister had, maybe
she had the, the answer, maybe

she knew something I don't.

So those types of thoughts had
started to creep in and, , I really

wasn't sure what to do with them.

I knew not to talk to people about them.

Because if I did that, it would
mean I would have to acknowledge

that I'm not being as strong
as everyone thinks I'm being.

Andrea: Mm.

Jesse: So anyway, back to listening
to different pastors and such, I'm

listening to something on my way to work.

And I remember hearing, don't you give up?

Don't you ever give up?

Don't you ever give up?

And I was like, you know
what, God, I want to give up.

I want to give up right now.

I want to give up.

I'm like beating on the steering wheel.

I'm like, if you're real, you've got
to make yourself clear to me right now.

I'm done with this.

I'm so over it.

And I look up and there is a
billboard, literally a billboard

that says the choice is clear.

And right behind it is in
despair, Jesus is the answer.

So it was one billboard,
then the next billboard.

And I pulled the car over on 95
and just started just weeping.

And I had an experience with the Lord.

, The, there was a feeling in the car and
a light in the car that I couldn't on my

best day describe, but he became real, he
became, he became, I believe that that's,

that's when I truly, truly, truly removed
all question around whether or not he,

Andrea: Mm.

Jesse: I don't know how long I was
in the car on the side of the road.

I do know that I went around.

And these are the things that happen
in my life that I just don't even,

sometimes I don't even think I
have the thoughts, it just happens.

I went around and went back.

I took a picture of both the billboards
so I would have them to remember.

I am here to tell you they
took those billboards down

within days of me seeing them.

Andrea: Wow.

Jesse: But I have the pictures and,
and, and for a long while, that was

the beginning of my remembrances.

That was the beginning of me saying,
Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,

no, no, no, no, no, no, he is real.

And here's how I know he's real
because he spoke to me on the side of

the road and here's what he gave me.

He gave me two billboards.

And then he met me in the car.

So I had to do that.

Now I understand to battle the
enemy in my mind, or not in my mind,

but in the exterior of trying to
seep into the thoughts in my mind.

And so that became the start of here's
what he's doing and here's what he's done.

So I'd have these tangible things
that I knew were coming from him.

At the same time.

I'm reading the Bible.

I'm listening to pastors.

, I'm listening to some of the greats
out there and it's starting to get in.

I'm spending time alone with him in
a secret place, probably for close to

three years, just worshipping, praising,
listening to sermons, listening to

worship sessions that go for hours.

two and three hours.

People like Stephanie Gretzinger,
Jesus Image, and these folks that just,

they just, they arrive on the stage
and they just pour their entire souls

out to the Lord, and just adoration
and praise and all those things.

And so I'm, I'm experiencing that alone.

And I'm realizing that there is something,
there are a lot of things missing.

, there's also scripture that talks
about how we don't do this alone.

We need the body.

And I kept saying, Lord, you know,
I've been around your people in church

and I don't want to go to church.

The Lord was like, you gotta
go, you gotta go to church.

But I don't want to go to,
but you gotta go to church.

So I started exploring that
and, , visited many good churches.

, and, and had great experiences.

There was just, there was this connection
that was missing and what I didn't know

is that the Lord was doing things just
like He always is with other people.

And so, , fast forward, , I was, , I was
in TJ Maxx and I walked past a t shirt

that was for a team of a good friend of
mine and I hadn't seen him in a really

long time, in years as a matter of fact.

Since my sister had passed away, and
we all used to be friends, and the Lord

said, pick that t shirt up for your, I
don't know if I should mention his name,

but pick that t shirt up for your friend.

And I'm like, why?

I don't ever see him.

That's ridiculous.

So I know now I'll battle it the
whole way to the cash register, but

I know now I don't battle it anymore.

I just pick it up and I
say, okay, I've got it.

Here we go.

Well, I guess I'll, I guess I'll see my
friend at some point, Lord, you know, and

so, , I did in fact see him and it turned
out that, , there were some things going

on and some real challenges in life were,
were, were presented to him and his wife.

So I had this, a beautiful
experience and walking through.

What they were walking through with them.

They had become a part of a church,
been baptized, walking with the Lord.

Two people that I thought
would never walk with the Lord.

So the Lord was preparing them so that
he could join us back together in Him.

And we could have the friendship, the
beautiful friendship that we experience

now that is completely centered in Jesus.

I mean, just completely centered in that.

Andrea: Mm.

Jesse: So he's always, always
doing exceedingly more than

we could ever think or ask.

And that's just the unfolding that
goes on in my life over and over again.

Well, that got, got me into, okay, I'll,
I'll go to church and, and experience

this and see what this is like.

It's turned out to be just
a beautiful experience.

It's turned out to be just the
message, , over and over again, every

single Sunday that, that I need.

It also turns out in God's
divine design that when I was.

in my hometown, working the job I
was working, that that company was

supplying the church where this
pastor that I currently, , follow

at 1122 was the youth pastor.

So we were

Andrea: ha, ha.

Jesse: we were connected back
in the 2000, 2002, 2003 circa.

, in that way, He was a youth pastor there.

Now he's the pastor of
1122 in Jacksonville.

So, , it's just, it's amazing that that
type of story ribbons through, , my

life story and my walk with the Lord.

So here, here's another one
that involves you, Jesse.

So you, , you've given me more
than one white chip, that surrender

chip, , , back between 2004 and 2006.

And, , I, I remember the people who
are kind and now I know it's, you know,

it's just, you recognize the Lord in
people's eyes and you see and feel it,

even though you don't know to acknowledge
it, you don't know necessarily what

it is, but once you know what it is.

And there's no, there's
no denying it, you know.

So that's what I see it as now, but
anyway, only a loving, kind God would

put Jesse Duke in Andrea Sinclair's path
in the most vulnerable time in her life.

And fast forward, have her become a
part of, , the local board for Habitat

for Humanity and have her sitting
and reading the original documents.

, from that organization and hearing
about a guy named Jesse Duke who would

drive around and say no more Shaqs and
Fernandina and, and go and figure out

what they were doing in Americus, Georgia.

I remember reading that and just
weeping, and I was like, Lord.

You, you mean, you mean this guy, I, I
thought that guy was a painter, you know,

here he is, like it literally brought
that organization to Fernandina, an

organization that, , I had volunteered
for since the early nineties, but

always had a heart towards it because my
grandmother kept the books for Charles

Moore, the man that ran the warehouse
where Billy and, , Jimmy Carter stored

their peanuts in Americus, Georgia.

Andrea: Ha,

Jesse: And my grandfather was
Jimmy's pastor, and they would all

talk about, don't do it, Jimmy,
and you know, all those things.

So, so only a loving God
weaves all that together.

You know, it's just, it's, he, we, we
have no idea what he's doing, when he's

doing it, but then we, we're like, oh
wow, Lord, I, I see what you did there.

I see what you did there, you know?

So, , current day, it's just, all of
that continues to weave through my daily

life, when I'm able to, , completely.

Completely surrender, whatever
it is that's going on,

, ,
whatever challenge it, it
might be, which in my mind.

Life, , one of the most common,
, threads has been the whole people

pleasing, , that lives so strong in
areas that I could never imagine.

You know, the obvious areas are always
there, and I ask the Lord to relieve

me, and, and, and I feel like, okay,
I've got some relief, I'm not trying to

people please in this area any longer.

And then.

Some little subtle thing happens.

I'm like, oh wow, it's still there.

I'm like, Lord, there's more of this here.

And he's like, yes, that's.

Why you need me.

Remember?

Remember, I am the vine, right?

You're the branch.

Okay.

Right, right, right, right, right.

Okay.

So, it's just, It is a beautiful
thing to be walking with the Lord.

I, if someone had told me I would think or
feel or desire the presence of God the way

that I do, , even five years ago, I would
have probably said, eh, no, not like that.

Not like it's all I want to do.

No, no, I'm not going down those roads.

No, no, no, no, no.

That's kind of crazy.

Andrea: Fanatic.

You don't want to

Jesse: Yeah, you don't be a fanatic,
you don't want to be a Jesus freak now.

But anyway, I literally went to 1122
with my friend because his wife, , was,

, in a treatment facility and, I, I
wanted to go for him to keep him company

and, and, and comforted in those first
few days when she was gone and it was

so good to be reconnected with them.

So I went thinking, Oh, I'm going with
him for him, you know, that kind of thing.

And when I got there, I, first of
all, I knew it was a mega church.

I, , I had a certain idea about those.

And, but when I walked in from the moment,
from the very first time when I walked in

the doors and people started speaking, I
know, , I've been around so many church

environments that I know fake and phony
and I, and I, I hate to even say that,

Andrea: Mm hmm.

Mm

Jesse: there was this sense that
everyone that was doing everything.

Literally wanted to be
doing it and I sat down.

I was very skeptical I sat down and
there was just a feeling in the in

the church itself Which I know is the
presence of the Holy Spirit I know they

host the Holy Spirit so to speak not
saying that other churches don't but

they say at 1122 that it's a movement
for all people, all people, to deepen

their relationship with Jesus Christ.

they literally mean that.

Alcoholic, drug addict,
drinking, not drinking, , living

in an alternative lifestyle.

It does not matter where you are,
they want you there, not in a, oh,

let's change your mind type of way.

It's let's change your heart.

It And the way we're going to do that is.

That, Pastor Joby Martin says
all the time, he didn't write

the mail, he just delivers it.

And that, and he, he
means, he means the Bible.

and everything's been
centered around Scripture.

It's not about, let's give you a fluffy
talk and, and get you out of here.

If, if that's what people are
drawn to and that gets them to

know the Lord, that's great.

But he is very much centered in What
does the truth say in the Bible?

And I like that approach.

I think most alcoholics
love that approach.

Because if you give fogginess around
things, we're going to figure out, we're

going to figure out a different way.

We're,

Andrea: A loophole?

Jesse: We're going to
figure out a loophole.

We're going to figure out the trap door.

And the next thing you know, we're
going to be like, do Galatians

really say, like, we'll be like Eve.

You know, or it would be like
the, the snake in the garden

saying, did, did the Lord really
say you couldn't eat that apple?

You know, we will be those people.

So I think that his directness in
the approach with scripture, , is

very much what draws But most
importantly, having them know that.

They can count on it being the word of
God and not the word of Joby Martin.

Andrea: Mm hmm.

Mm hmm.

Jesse: that's the biggest thing.

Not saying that he is
unique or that is unique.

There are plenty of
churches that do the same.

It's just they are people of action and
you know, how we are, you know, we want

to, we want to be a part of the community.

And a lot of times.

For whatever reason, we're denied
those opportunities, , as recovered,

you know, alcoholics and addicts.

, but through an organization and a
body of Christ that is all about.

The prison ministry, the, people in 12
step programs, you know, the, I remember

I was on, , we were, , we were walking
into the building one Sunday and I was

like, yeah, I bet they, I bet they don't
take on, Mental illness and suicide,

and I've pulled up the app and looked,
there's a whole, they have a whole

team dedicated to that, , from someone
who lost a family member, I think it

was her daughter to suicide and, and
came to the church and said, you know,

why, why aren't we talking about this?

Why aren't we, why don't
we addressing this?

They have, , foster programs for,
and People who want to be foster

parents and, , mission trips,
both, , locally and internationally.

They, they literally have
things going for everyone.

, big part of the Tim Tebow Foundation
and what he does and, , huge into

being a resource for human trafficking.

So you, you feel as
though you're a part of.

Something that is making a difference
every single day, but at the same

time, you receive so much more
when you're fed the word of God

directly from the way it's written.

And, and, and he's funny too.

He's, his delivery is, is,
is unique and humorous.

Quite often he calls it like it is.

Guest pastors are always really good too.

, so it's just, it's a great place
for someone who feels as though they

just won't like going to church.

You get involved in, and it's
just a really cool thing.

We've got a discipleship group that
meets locally on Wednesday nights and,

, We just covered the sermon from the
week before, and that's become just a

complete, beautiful group to be a part of.

We support each other in prayer.

, we stay in touch through the week.

, we are excited when we see each
other, when we, when somebody's

been gone traveling for work or
whatever, and we see each other again.

It's like, it's like family, you know,

Andrea: Yeah, you mentioned back
when you were a teenager, wanted to

start this Christian life and gave
your life to the Lord, but there

was, really no discipleship involved.

And I think.

that's really the missing ingredient,
in all of this is, is discipleship.

I mean, we, for so long, the church
has kind of, well, I, I use this

in a very broad sense and I just
hope people don't take it the wrong

way, but, you know, this, , type of
evangelism where, you just got to get

somebody to say the sinner's prayer
and, and assume that God's going to.

You know, just magically transform them,
but it says in Romans 12 too that we

have to be, transformed by the renewing
of our minds and that takes discipleship

and, and that is, that was the missing
ingredient in my life when I was 16 or

17 years old, I decided to kind of turn
away from church and turn away from

the Lord because I just assumed that.

magically the Lord was supposed to
just start doing stuff in my life

and I didn't have anybody saying,
well, you got to do your part.

, well, we, we have an ongoing
revival in this country right now.

Most people are not aware of it.

And that revival, I believe
is, is that more and more.

believers are getting involved
in discipleship groups like

you talk about or discipleship
programs in one form or another.

And that is a huge thing.

And

I have heard other recovering folks going
to 1122 and talking very highly about it.

And I think it's because like
you said, it's, it's truth.

People are attracted to truth.

God draws them through the
truth and not through fluff.

Jesse: exactly.

There's, there's plenty
of fluff out there.

And, , it's just, it's
an amazing experience.

Andrea: Yeah.

Well, listen, we're really taking
advantage of God's time here, man,

because this, this is awesome.

But I wonder, , two things,
one, is there anything else you

want to add about your story?

And then I want to ask you, if there's one
bit of wisdom that you've gained over the

years that is crucial that you would like
to, to share with the listeners today.

Jesse: Gotcha.

I don't think that there's,
, anything that I want to add.

, we'll let the Holy Spirit do with all of
that what he will today and, and ongoing.

, if there's one bit of advice that I
can say has been critical for me that I

would, that I would recommend, that is.

Quite often we think we need fancy prayers
in, , certain way or a certain environment

to talk to the Lord or talk to God.

and that I've found is just not true.

, he appreciates being able to have us
recognize that he's always there, that

whether we are crying out or whether
we were just saying, Hey, are you real?

That's all that you need to make a start
and I believe that in my experience

of knowing that he's real now, prior
to that, being able to just ask those

simple questions, as I look back, he was
showing me whether it was the kindness

of someone approaching me, whether it was
the kindness of a friend, whether it was.

, a scripture that I would
see three times in one day.

He was talking to me.

You don't see those things until you're
at that point where you've established.

a relationship with him of some
sort, and you know he's real.

Andrea: mm,

Jesse: you get all that realization.

So you have to be comfortable
in the mystery, but it all comes

with just, just talk to him.

Hey, are you real?

Are you there?

Do you love me?

Do you care about me?

Whatever that is, all the questions
that we have early on, very important.

Don't give up.

Yeah.

It's all about relationship.

You can't have a relationship with
anybody unless you have a conversation.

I mean, even if it's just one sided.

In the beginning.

You know, if it seems to be
one sided, it's only because

we have to learn how to hear.

You have to grow ears to hear so to speak.

And that takes time.

That's that's great advice.

Thank you.

Jesse: Yes.

Andrea: Well.

anything you want to add, go right ahead.

Otherwise, would you pray
for our listeners today?

Jesse: Absolutely.

Heavenly Father, thank you
for all your grace and mercy.

I want to thank you for every
listener that ever hears any of

this, a portion of it or all of it.

You are absolutely, positively the great
orchestrator of everything that we do.

I want to thank you for Jesse and his
willingness to have A program like

this where we can talk about what
we've been through in order to arrive

at the final knowing in our hearts,
through and through, beyond the shadow

of the doubt, that you are our Savior
and that you are the King of Kings.

I just pray that.

Anyone who's listening that needs to
deepen that relationship with you or begin

that relationship with you, that you make
yourself known to them in such a tangible

way that there is no denying in the same
way that you've done for so many of us.

Fall drip by drip on their heart, Lord.

We thank you for everything you've done.

We thank you for the things
you're doing, and we thank you

for the things you will do.

We pray all of this in the
almighty name of Jesus.

Amen.

Andrea: Amen.

We hope you've been
blessed by today's story.

if you've heard something that you think
could help someone you know, please share

it using the link in the show notes.

Also, if you will give Faith and Purpose a
positive review on your podcast platform,

you could help more people find it.

You will probably never know how
that small effort can make a big

difference in someone's life,
but our Heavenly Father knows.

Speaking of sharing, if you know a Jesus
follower with a story to tell, please send

them a link to Faith and Purpose Podcast.

It may encourage them to tell their story.

That person may even be you.

Our only criteria is
that Jesus be glorified.

If Jesus has changed your
life, you have a story to tell.

you may be the only one who
can reach someone else through

telling your experience.

So don't be intimidated.

A story is just that, a true account
of your own experience, and no one

can disagree with your experience.

When we tell what Jesus has done in
our lives, we are being obedient to his

command to go into all the world and
preach the gospel to every creature.

It's not about theology, and it's not
about how interesting or special you are.

It's all about Jesus.

So when you're ready to tell how Jesus
has impacted your life, you can let Jesse

know at his ministry website, jesseduke.

net.

There you can download guidelines
that will make it easy to

prepare to tell your story.

Thank you for listening today and Shalom.