Faith & Purpose

Speaker: Welcome everyone to
Faith and Purpose podcast.

Each episode of this podcast contains the
personal testimony of an ordinary person

transformed by an extraordinary God.

My name is Kaylin and I'm
here to introduce this podcast

for my friend Jesse Duke.

Jesse is a husband, father, author,
life recovery guide, lay counselor,

and small group leader, but his
most important role is disciple.

As a disciple of Jesus.

Jesse created this podcast to help other
believers tell their faith stories.

We'll be hearing the personal
testimonies of all sorts of people

who have one thing in common,
Jesus has transformed their lives.

Jesus used parables because he created
us to learn best through story.

And as we listen to how God has worked
in others lives, we find encouragement

and inspiration for our own faith walk.

Whether you are already a believer or
just a curious seeker, we believe that

as you listen to these stories, you will
be encouraged on your own faith journey.

We are sure that God can speak to you
through one of these episodes and that you

will see that our Heavenly Father truly
works all things together for our good.

When we simply love and trust him.

If you are currently going through a
trial, we believe that you will come

to see that your troubles, heartbreaks,
and failures are not gravestones, but

stepping stones into new life in Christ.

Here's Jesse with today's guest.

Aaron: Welcome everybody to
Faith and Purpose podcast.

I'm Jesse Duke and today I have a
new friend Aaron Harns to tell his

testimony and I'm looking forward to it.

How are you doing Aaron?

Jesse: Oh, pretty good.

How about yourself?

Aaron: I am too blessed to be stressed.

So

tell us your Jesus story.

Jesse: my name is Aaron and I am in
my mid 50s and my Jesus story actually

started, right when I was born.

My mother, took me to get baptized.

I was baptized Anglican and pretty
much, Consistently throughout my

childhood, we went to church, every
Sunday did the Saturday picnics or

whatever, got to be, in my teenage
years and, went to youth group.

And for the most part, it
was a Lutheran Missouri.

and the reason why I say that
it's just to let you know that

it's, it was conservative, for
lack of better words, liturgical.

So it was, it was church like
on TV for lack of better words.

I don't know when it started.

I, Pretty much contribute third
grade, maybe second grade, but

what we call dyslexia, I had when I
was, younger and we didn't get it.

We didn't know what it was.

we didn't know how to deal with it.

It, very commonly comes with ADD,
or ADHD now, but, I have that.

as well.

So I'm this little boy, awkward
because I'm a little boy, little

boys are awkward, and teachers
didn't know what to do with me.

I had a hard time studying,
hard time learning.

So that started to affect my.

Self image, my self worth,
and I really enjoyed church.

one of the neatest things, I
ever did, even to this day,

was my confirmation class.

it lasted two years, and I
actually still have that textbook.

I don't know what it was,
I just Always enjoyed it.

always wanted to learn more, but
what I was missing, was a personal

relationship, was a kind of a trusting.

So what I did is I decided to
run the ship, drive the car.

I never understood at that age
partnership with God, that he was

all powerful and that if I gave my.

My will, my life to him that things
would be peaceful and run smoother.

So long story short, with
that low self image and, all

the things that go with that.

and then I turned into a teenager.

And if you think little boys are
awkward waiting to see a teenage

boy, I became even more awkward.

so I, slowly but surely found, alcohol.

I'll never forget.

I would steal it from
my dad's liquor cabinet.

And, one day I filled up literally
a red solo cup and went to the bus

stop and, drank enough of it, waiting
for the bus that I passed out, on the

bus and ended up in the bus depot.

so that, that was my first big experience.

I was 14.

so that's how my drinking took off.

But, slowly but surely drugs and
everything else that comes with that.

but what had happened throughout my
teenage years is in that awkwardness in

that, I don't want to say inability, but
it is difficult to be dyslexic and to be

ADD, especially in a world where there's
no understanding of it, so that self

image, that self worth just plummeted.

Absolutely plummeted.

So later I would later in life, I would
learn that we all are born with this hole

and it's because of sin and the garden.

And I don't, I have found
that I don't care what it is.

You're gonna fill it with something.

And I filled it with drugs and
alcohol, sex, drugs and rock and

roll, for lack of better words, right?

and that, that did a pretty
good job for a while.

the age of 17, and then again at
the age of 26, I thought, it would

be better for me not to be here.

When I was 17, it was the
darkest I've ever been.

And, I knew it wasn't right.

If, and I don't mean right, like correct.

I knew something was wrong.

I had known enough about God, about
creation, about why he supposedly

created us, that as I filled that
hole up with drugs and alcohol and

everything else, codependency, I am.

Probably one of the best
codependents out there.

second to my mother I love you mom,
if you hear this, I think that,

but anyways, I just knew it wasn't.

Something was wrong, right?

Something wasn't working.

Something was broken.

So from about, end of 16, maybe
midway through 17, I struggled with

that theory, with that thought.

and I was in Scottsdale, Arizona,
and I went and, looked at Scottsdale,

Camelback, resort or rehab, however you
want to look at it and, really ponder.

Maybe it's this drugs and alcohol
that is getting in the way.

At the same time, my father, was
struggling with me as well and

was talking to the police and
not sure what to do with his son.

and I beat him to the punch,
asking to go to rehab before he.

I had decided to do
something with the law.

So I ended up in Camelback,
about 17 and a half or so.

Sobered up, did the program, was
introduced to AA, introduced to

this God of my own understanding.

And I saw things such as people thinking
that the mountains were, was their

God or the meetings were their God.

And I'll be honest with you, I
drank it hook, line, and sinker.

it was so freeing and so peaceful.

at that point I had wandered away from
church, from Jesus, from my faith.

I don't know that I left it on purpose.

I think it was just more of a.

a life situation thing.

I just stopped going and one thing led
to another and before you knew it, it

was one month and then it was six months
and then it was three years, bounced in

and out of sobriety, went to culinary
school and was accepted into that program.

And I was a chef for many years.

personally, I think, Halfway decent one.

I got to open up some
restaurants, which is always fun.

very stressful, but fun, fast paced.

perfect for someone with ADD.

it was awesome.

but they, unfortunately, as the
chef gave me all the keys, which

included the keys to the bar.

and I very quickly found out,
how much power there was in.

Giving people alcohol, to buying
drinks, to being that guy.

as that progressed, my drinking got
worse, my, my social life blossomed in

numbers, but it actually fell in quality.

that low self worth, that, self
image that just is undefined and

just ugly, got worse and worse.

I had a baby girl.

and she, all my kids argue about
who's daddy's favorite, but Audrey

and I, we had a really good time.

I was a single dad.

her mom and I separated and, I was
able to have her for most of the

time, which was really exciting.

but restaurants and baby
girls don't go together.

I ended up going to Johnson and
Wales and getting a bachelor's

and doing some corporate work.

I was a business development guy and
I got into this, professional sales,

if you will, for lack of better
words, and I sold clean room design,

which was really neat and great for
the ego because I was hanging out

with literally rocket scientists.

And flying all over the world and,

Aaron: what were you selling?

Jesse: yeah.

so it's a clean room.

I don't know if you remember, but
do you remember the ads a couple

of years ago from Intel and you
had those guys in those bunny suits

Aaron: yeah.

Jesse: yeah, that's a clean room
and what it is it's a room it's.

Literally, it's a lab or room that
has almost no particles in it,

like these micro nano particles.

it's really interesting, how
those particles mess everything

up and how simple it is to
create a clean environment.

It's all mechanical engineering.

It's all filtrations and moving
air and things like that.

it was fascinating.

I even got to speak.

I was invited to speak, at a forum
in Germany and I will never, that

was the best trade show ever.

You could smoke on the floor
and everybody poured you drinks.

was heaven.

It was heaven.

But, one thing led to
another, and that whole.

reopened.

the alcohol was no longer working.

my first rehab, I was able
to, refrain from the drugs.

And what I mean by drugs
is non alcohol substances.

but I just couldn't let go of the alcohol.

I remember when I was in rehab, there
was this lady, across the hall, across

the little courtyard, and she was mean.

She smelled, she walked
around in these slippers.

And these Ugly dresses, just mean.

and I figured that she was an alcoholic.

I was a drug addict, so
thank God I wasn't like her.

Well, it turns out 15 years later,
I was her in a male version.

so much for that.

Right.

But what did happen?

raising Angie, I knew I had a
responsibility to introduce her

to God, not knowing exactly who
God was, been in and out of AA.

So I went back to rehab, sobered up.

again, and this time I was going to do
it, just so you know, there was one other

time and about six more trips to AA, but
I, I was always around the rooms, whatnot.

35, I had remarried, the
hole had reopened again.

I was.

Drinking just tons of
substances to fill that hole.

however, I had started really going
back to church and, you'll find

out in a minute that I'm a pastor.

Church is just a building,
but I went back to church.

I went back looking for a community.

I went back looking, for God, just.

Here again, I didn't know what it was,
but I knew what I thought and felt

about God wasn't the whole picture.

There, there had to be more.

so it was a neat adventure for Audrey
and I, we did some church shopping, we

went Baptist for a little bit, we went
Wisconsin Lutheran and we ended up at,

cross point in Katy, Texas, and it was.

The Lutheran Missouri Synod,
but it was very modern.

they call it, ancient
something, but modern something.

I actually forget the logo,
but it was, it was phenomenal.

I met this pastor, Matt Popovitz,
who's just an incredible.

Incredible pastor and, just was
introduced to a Jesus that I had

hoped for, if that makes any sense,
I had gone back to the rooms and I

had met this gentleman, long hair.

I think he was missing two teeth.

Jones's beat up pickup truck.

he was a butcher, where
I, was college educated.

I was not at the height, but I was.

Making a pretty good buck, drove a nice
car, had a haircut, but every time he

said something and every time he answered
a question, God was in the answer.

And, so I asked him to be my sponsor
and I said, I've been here, I've done

that, but I've never done it right.

will you help?

And, it turns out that the meeting
that I met him at and went at, another

guy came in at about the same time
that I did, and the room had bets

on who was going to make it, and the
bet was not, the bet was not on me,

I always found that to be very, very,
very interesting, but, his very first

question to me is, okay, are you done?

And my answer was, I sure do hope so.

And I don't know why to this day.

I don't, I'm, I have some theories, but
I don't exactly know why, but he said,

that is the best answer I've ever heard.

And I was like, okay.

So that started a relationship.

happy was his name.

And, he's since left us, but
man, he was just such a neat guy.

It was unbelievable.

Loved God, gave his life
to God, made like no money.

but he was peaceful and he was happy.

And he, It was always there
for you and never mattered.

and it was an example that
I really needed to see.

So long story short, I was
remarried and then I got divorced.

I had two other children from that
lady and, my son is a hemophiliac.

My daughter has ended up, going
down the route of her father.

that story is ending very well.

we'll get to that in a second, but, going
to church, being active in the church,

serving in the church, We started,
still going to AA, by the way, still

struggling a little bit with this, God
as I understand him, the group is my God,

whatever, different things like that.

I didn't fully understand, because if the
group is my God, then I'm actually God.

Because the minute you make me mad,
And I don't go back to the meeting.

I changed that meeting.

So it just that didn't work for
me because God, whoever, whatever,

has to be the most powerful.

Nothing can be more powerful than him.

Forget me not being more powerful.

It goes further than that.

It's not just me.

It's.

Anything cannot be more
powerful for God to be real.

He's got to be the ultimate power.

and if you have another seven
and a half hours, we could

theologically discuss that, but
that's for another podcast anyways.

really putting my life together.

I have been fortunate enough to
meet my, if you will, real wife.

We're coming up on 16 years
and just an incredible woman.

We've got some twins.

So I've got this big family.

it's just turned out
to be a wonderful life.

And through all that, I've
been growing in my faith.

I went to celebrate recovery.

I've done life recovery,
stayed in the meetings.

one thing led to another.

I started out, in fact, for
all your listeners, if you

don't want to be involved.

In a religious organization, a church,
or whatever you want to call it,

you never raise your hand, because I
said, sure, I'd love to stack chairs.

And the next thing I know, I am, leading
a Celebrate Recovery group, had some

issues with that, and we switched to
what I call Grace 812, and this was,

14 years ago now, Grace being the gift.

Eight being the truth, which are
the Beatitudes that Jesus spoke.

But who's kidding who,
we can't live like that.

So we need a path, which
is the 12, the 12 steps.

I firmly believe that the 12 steps
is, probably the best discipleship

pathway I have ever discovered.

and one of my dreams is to bring
the rooms to the pulpit and take

the pulpit back to the rooms.

when AA started, they would get
together and the first thing

they do is read scripture.

Aaron: We'd both like to get
it back to the origins of AA.

it was a lot more powerful then.

Jesse: yeah,

Aaron: But let me ask you,
I've never heard of mm.

Grace 812.

Is that something that was
just in that church or what?

Jesse: Now, it's something
that I developed.

Quite honestly, it's a combination
of Celebrate Recovery, Life

Recovery, AA, NA, and Al Anon.

Aaron: Awesome.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Jesse: two churches, and then
I moved away and it died down.

went away, and I've been
moving, for various reasons.

I went to New Jersey and that
kind of blew up in my face.

So I came back to Texas.

And when I came back, by the time I
came back, which is, or 2019, long

progression of things, literally from
starting to raise my hand to one thing

led to another and, I'm teaching.

And then the next thing is, I'm taking
this lay minister class, and then the next

thing I know I'm in seminary, and then the
next thing I know I'm in this ordination

program with the Presbyterian Church.

So, I was kind of struggling with this
sometimes, talking about meeting Jesus.

I'm not sure if it was an interview or if
I was just explaining my call, but I had a

church that wanted to hear more about me.

And when we were talking about what
I wanted to do as a pastor and things

like that, I showed them my Grace 812.

I've got a little proposal and
budgets and all that kind of stuff.

Stuff, very well footnoted,
And they said, this is awesome.

One thing led to another.

They, presented me with a call to be
the pastor of outreach and recovery.

so I was like, done, sold.

So I am in the heart of Houston.

I'm.

A heart of Houston, Texas
has got, Houston's got a

couple of different hearts.

but this is, an older kind of heart.

at one time it was extremely
white and extremely wealthy.

now it is one of the most
diverse parts of the city, both

economically, ethically, it is just.

It is a wonderful place to be.

so I jumped at the chance, and
I brought Grace Aid 12 back.

in fact, Grace Aid 12 is what got
me, into life recovery because during

COVID, where you and I crossed paths
a little bit, I did a life recovery

group via Zoom, which was neat.

That was a neat experience.

So when I came here, ironically
enough, it's called Grace Presbyterian.

but Grace Age 12 was created years before.

So

at the end of the day, I could have never,

I could have never met
Jesus without this story.

I would have known a textbook Jesus.

perhaps I would have known a
kind of a fly by night Jesus.

But I would never, I don't believe,
that I would have ever been, if you

will, dedicated, convinced, bought
into whatever you want to say, to a

god and to a savior without this story.

Bottoms, There, there's no
deep bottom or light bottom.

Bottom is bottom.

And when you, or I guess I should say,
when I realized that I didn't have

any part in any of this other than
to show up, once I did that, then.

then I started to live.

and that was 20 years ago in
January, been clean and sober.

So that's it's always weird too.

When I tell people that they, I've
got tons of degrees, I'm ordained.

I've got licenses, blah,
blah, blah, blah, blah.

But people are most proud, of me
and congratulate me or whatever.

when I tell them that I'm coming
up on 20 years, it's, it's

really it's interesting that's.

My mark on this world that somebody
actually can be such a mess and actually

by the grace of God clean up, right?

So

Aaron: it's a good way to magnify
God saying, He got me this far.

Jesse: yep.

Yeah, it sure is.

Yeah, there's this gentleman, who's
a Professor I think it's Northwestern

Seminary And he makes the comment quite
often that the reason why he's a pastor.

That's the only way he God could
have kept him close to him.

I feel, I feel the same way, right?

Aaron: Yeah.

Jesse: Because I'm a pastor,
I have responsibilities of,

getting into the Word every day.

But, so that's my Jesus story.

And where it ends, to the best of
my ability, I work the steps every

day, realizing that it's not When
I say God of my understanding,

it's not that I get to name him.

It's not that I get to define him.

It's that I understand him.

And every day, my
understanding of God changes.

And I think that's probably one of the
most important things that I grab onto.

The knowledge that I hear on
earth, I will never know God fully,

and I can continue to grow and
I can continue to relationship.

I do some neat things today.

every Wednesday I have my Jesus
lunch, and it's in my calendar

and I go to lunch with Jesus.

sometimes I bring a friend,
sometimes I bring a stranger and

I tell them Jesus is with us.

Sometimes I go by myself.

I am, I'm fortunate enough,
to be in this pastoring role.

We started a Tuesday night service,
which is contemplative in nature.

I'm a huge Richard Rohr fan, if
you've ever read Breathing Underwater,

and the fact that I love when he
says I can't believe the Catholic

Church hasn't kicked me out yet.

I'm like, yeah, I can't believe it either.

But as soon as he does, think
about being a Presbyterian.

Aaron: Yeah.

Jesse: and it's this grace 812 and I
get to find the steps in the Bible.

all the steps from, the first, what,
four or five from the Oxford group,

to the 12 steps that we know from the
big book, it's all scripturally based.

MacBook Air Microphone: Yep.

Jesse: and I love that.

Security, maybe is a good word
that I am believing and I am acting

and I am striving to behave in
a way that's based on the truth.

And now I'll have someone say,
yeah, but your truth isn't my truth.

let's take off the pastor
hat for just a second.

Truth is truth.

Truth can't be different.

Otherwise, by definition, it's not truth.

to be, there has to be one truth, right?

every day I wake up, and I look
at my day and I ask God for help.

And every day when I end my day,
I look at how the day went, look

at, Not what did I do wrong?

How could I do better?

How could I serve others better?

How could I serve God better?

and that allows me to sleep.

there's, we can go a thousand
different directions, but at the

end of the day, my life is a mess.

It's an absolute mess.

but I'm at peace and I'm happy and
I'm in this state of joy and joy is to

me, I don't think joy is an emotion.

I'm happy with that emotion.

Joy is a state of being right?

and it's Not always easy, but I am, for
the most part, joyful in all things.

And that's, that's more than
I could ever have hoped for.

Aaron: can you explain a little
bit what you meant by your life is

in a mess and yet you're joyful?

Yeah.

Jesse: yeah.

I, like I spoke of my second daughter,
she, Her mother and she, very difficult

relationship for better words, and
my daughter has decided to turn

to other things to fill her hole.

And, she, she came to me and said, help.

And I said, absolutely.

But this is what we're going to do.

And we did a bunch of different things.

And we went to church, we
read the Bible, we prayed.

And I don't mean like church,
like you have to be there

at nine o'clock on Sunday.

church for me is more of a posture, right?

I'll come to your house for dinner and
when you invite me, I'll, whatever.

I'll bring a dessert or something,
but I just go to my mom's right.

in fact, I just walk in.

that's the, that's the feeling
I have when I come to church and

even churches that isn't my church
that I'm visiting or whatnot.

it's the Lord's house and he welcomes us.

So there's this.

This daughter who is struggling.

And remember, I struggled
and my heart bleeds for her.

I just, there's nothing you
can do as a parent, right?

All you can do is be an example and
be there for them when they need to

talk until two o'clock in the morning.

economically, like I said
before, I was doing pretty well.

I would later hit my peak
or my peak at this date.

economically, it is.

Very rough.

in fact, we recently moved,
to a much smaller house.

We've downsized by two thirds.

I'm not living the life
that I used to live.

I have a son that's a
hemophiliac, and that's tricky.

especially now that he's grown up
and he gets to do what he wants

to do, apparently does not include
taking his infusions every Saturday

morning at nine o'clock, which.

Aaron: Yeah.

Jesse: right?

I'm getting older.

I'll tell you what, there's something
happens when you're 50 and you get out of

bed that first day and the need, it just
doesn't feel like it did the day before.

my mom and dad are getting older
and there's, I'm having to care

for them more than ever before.

there's, there's challenges
in everybody's life, right?

it's nothing's a piece of cake.

so that, that's what I meant
by a mess or whatever I said.

Aaron: I always wonder how, pastors
handle it because they have to not only

listen to other people's stuff, try to
help other people, but you got your own

stuff you're dealing with and it sounds
to me like you, you've, you've You're

just trusting in God and day by day.

Jesse: Yeah.

Yeah.

I've gotten to the point
that I've realized I don't

really have any other choice.

remember when I was saying in the
beginning, it just wasn't right.

something was broken.

Something was when I trust
God, it's not broken.

it is right.

That does not mean it's fun.

That does not mean it's easy,
but it does mean that it's right.

So I can count on it.

And if I count on it,
then you can count on me.

And that, that self image, that, that
self worth that was so pathetically low

so many years ago, now I'm at the point
I gotta keep my ego in check sometimes.

so my wife, she's so cool.

She'd be like, really?

I'd be like, ooh, that
wasn't a good really, was it?

She'd be like, nope.

it's just neat to live that way.

I.

I don't know.

It's just I live for others.

and in living for others,
I have an awesome life.

I talked about codependency and that's,
I'm not saying it doesn't rear its ugly

head, but when I say, live for others,
I live to be part of a community, right?

I live to be part of a family, lead a
family, being part of a neighborhood even.

Aaron: could you expand a little
bit on that word codependency

for our listeners to benefit.

Jesse: yeah, so my understanding
of that definition, is that you do

things for others, you put others
first, but it's not for them.

It's for your own benefit.

and that benefit can be emotional.

That benefit can be, in one sense, even
spiritual, or physical, where service.

Where you do something truly for somebody
because you're doing it for them, right?

I made the joke earlier
about not raising your hand.

but seriously, if you're not willing
to give of yourself your time, maybe

even your money or your resources.

or your skill, then that's not service.

You're doing it for a different reason.

Maybe it's selfish.

Maybe it's codependent, but
that codependent is doing it.

So I feel better about me.

that's.

That's the whole key.

And I can manipulate it.

So you like me, I can manipulate
it so that you owe me.

I can, whatever I do.

at the end of the day, it's this
fear that I'm not good enough.

so I act in a codependent manner that
allows me, because I got you to do

something to feel better about myself.

Oh,

Aaron: That's the best explanation of
codependency I think I've ever heard.

Jesse: okay.

Aaron: it's right to the point.

It's not about the other person.

It's about us filling
that hole, so to speak.

Jesse: Yeah.

Yeah.

I, I'm a firm believer that it's
Grace 812 is actually, not marketed.

For drugs and alcohol.

it's marketed, life recovery.

Cause we're all recovering from something.

Maybe it's cocaine.

Maybe it's scotch.

Maybe it's being a senior vice president.

Maybe it's driving that new Mustang.

Maybe it's having a girlfriend that
looks like, or having a family that

looks like, We're, we all have our idols.

and it's our idols that
we have to put down.

Aaron: Yeah.

that is awesome.

I appreciate it.

Since you're, so familiar with life
recovery and celebrate recovery and all

that, I'll ask, when I was studying,
life recovery and I, they would talk

about the different kinds of addictions,
like when, just say pornography, That

it's not just a mental, physical thing.

it is actually, when we look at
pornography, there's dopamine that

is released And we keep going back to
it because we want that dopamine fix.

Jesse: Yeah.

Dopamine is part of it.

Absolutely.

Aaron: Yeah, and I just use
pornography as an example.

it could be anything that we set up as
an idol because we get that dopamine fix,

And it's so subtle that we're not really
aware of it until, We hit a bottom of

some sort and we have to deal with it.

Yeah.

Jesse: think sometimes we have
to be a little careful with the

science behind this though, right?

okay.

First of all, science does
not prove the Bible and the

Bible does not prove science.

they are two different functions.

So with that being said, I know that
God created us in such a way and in

such an amazing way that we have these
little tiny chemicals like dopamine

that serve a purpose that, that can
be, because of, character defects

or sin, functions in a poor way.

I am not saying that
dopamine is not to blame.

I am currently on medication
that helps me with my dopamine.

But I think the bigger
issue is that whole, right?

And it's the spiritual
side of our created beings.

Cause we were created physically,
we were created emotionally and

we were created spiritually.

And when our spiritual, health is
so incredibly low, then we go to

things like pornography, right?

And it's not about the sex.

It's about this dopamine,
but it goes deeper than that.

It's this fear that I'm
not going to be loved.

It's this fear that I'm not whatever,
it also includes our basic human

instincts of wanting to procreate.

there's so much that goes into this.

But you are absolutely, I agree
with you, four hundred percent.

It doesn't matter what it is.

pornography, cocaine, gambling, food.

I, I had real, I had, I'll have
to admit, I had real issues with

overeaters for a couple years.

I just didn't get it, right?

just don't eat three Big Macs.

How hard is that?

you weigh three hundred pounds.

Do something about it.

And, I had this lady, who I considered
a friend and who we trusted each other

and she was in OA and so we would talk
recovery and she went down her story

path and I literally closed my eyes and
rolled my head and she said something

and I started to listen for the very
first time and she told my story.

But where it was a Big Mac for her, it was
scotch for me, where it was French fries

for her, it was cocaine for me, where it
was, hiding, in the drive out lane or the

drive through lane, it was, me sneaking
out in the middle of the night, going

to the bar on Saturday so I could get.

Everything I needed for Sunday
because the liquor stores were closed.

it was exactly the same and she may have
been a heavy girl, but there were plenty

of days that I didn't smell very good
because I hadn't showered in four days.

so it's really interesting, how
this thing called addiction works

and for that matter, how recovery
works and heals us of that.

but the healing isn't.

Isn't in the 12 steps.

It's not in the medicine.

the healing is in our
relationship with God.

In fact, the 12 step doesn't promise
the 12 steps don't process anything.

The only thing we're told, and
I, let me just take a step back.

I realized that there are the
promises in the big book, and

I'm a firm believer in that.

But I guess what I mean is the 12
steps as a whole doesn't necessarily.

Promise me I'm not going to
drink, doesn't promise me.

I'm not going to look at pornography,
but what it does tell me is the

result of these steps of working.

These steps of living, these
steps is the spiritual experience.

that is the result, tons and tons of
on top of it, by working the steps.

like I said, in the beginning,
12 steps is a spiritual pathway

that is just incredible.

but at the end of it, it
is relationship with God.

That is.

that is what heals me of myself.

Samson Q2U Microphone-1: Yeah,
And My take on the 12 steps

is that they are definitely a
means to a spiritual awakening.

And if we're diligent and persistent.

Beyond that they can take
us to the place where we're.

We can become humble enough to
receive what Jesus is offering.

You know, I believe it
was a blazer per skull.

Who said We're all born
with a God shaped backing.

And nothing can fill it, but the father
who's made known through Jesus Christ.

So, you know, God created us in his image.

So.

Aaron: were basically spiritual
beings, and that spirit is always

wanting to reconnect with the Father.

and yet we don't know how.

So these things that we get ourselves
into, whether it's drugs and alcohol

or overeating or whatever, is an
attempt, it's really a spiritual search.

When, um, when I drank, I was seeking
God, and it, it, it sounds kind of

weird to a non drinker, but I was
seeking to transcend this human

experience and reconnect with this God.

father spirit.

So that when we do get born again,
when we do, I mean, in AA we find

God as you understand him, right?

And that, and that is enough for sobriety.

But if we really want to fill that
vacuum, we continue seeking and we

continue to, Try to reconnect our
spirit with God's spirit, and you know,

Jesus said that those who worship God
must worship in spirit and in truth.

In other words, when we get
born again, It's our spirits

that are reconnected with God.

Well, Jesus used the word Born from above.

And that's the reconnecting of our
human spirit with his spirit, and

that's the difference between a
relationship with Jesus and religion.

Because religion, religion's
all coming from our head, right?

But, but this relationship is
coming through that spirit.

Jesse: Agreed.

That was well said.

That was very well said.

Yeah.

It's and it's amazing how our egos can
actually allow us to think and feel and

act, based on what we think the truth
is that we're bright enough to do this.

there are days I can barely tie my
shoes, let alone create the world.

so it's, sometimes I just have to
laugh at myself, but it's never

before I do something stupid.

It's always after, right?

Yeah.

Aaron: But see, here's the thing, if, and
to me, the process of renewing your mind

is the process of remembering who we are.

in our spirit.

So it's our spirit that's
reborn, not our body.

So in the flesh, we are going to do these
stupid things all kinds of stupid things,

and we're going to sin again and all that.

but all along when we're reborn, as He is,
so are we in this world we are already In

our spirits, we are identical to Jesus.

So to me, renewing my
mind is remembering Jesus.

That identity and not
fallen prey to the flesh.

Does that make sense?

Jesse: yeah, it makes sense.

I, I also think that renewing your
mind is, in, in that reconnection

is understanding and learning.

That's why I really do like
the word understanding.

It's just misunderstood, but
learning because you can't believe

something that you don't know.

You've got to, you've
got to have a knowledge.

you've got to have a right
footing so that you can believe.

So that, that renewing is that connection.

And we do that through
connections with others.

We do that through Bible study.

We do that through working the steps.

we do that from service.

so that once I can believe
something, then I can live in faith.

But I'm not going to live
in faith unless I believe.

so it's like this process
that we have to go through.

And I get frustrated sometimes in the
room because people don't allow people

to be at different levels, right?

in fact, I'm giving a, I'm
giving a sermon tonight and

I'm, using a quote from Buddha.

he was.

Wise, right?

there's wisdom in what he says.

There's not wisdom enough for
me to put him on the pedestal as

a creator, as an all powerful.

but just because somebody is a little
bit different than I am doesn't mean

they don't have something to offer.

Aaron: right?

Jesse: You know what?

At the end of the day, my Jesus
story is the creation story, right?

God created me and it was good.

I was, I smiled and I had a great
couple first years and, but because

of sin, everything was a mess.

everything was a mess physically,
emotionally, socially, financially,

but it wasn't until Jesus came and sat
and waited for me to grab his hand.

And once I grabbed his hand,
it just, it all changed,

Aaron: Mm.

Jesse: And if you look at the
steps, it's the same way, step one,

two, and three, what do we say?

I can't, he can, and I'll let him.

And if you're going to let him,
then you've got work to do.

And you gotta look at yourself, right?

And you gotta share your story
and you gotta be there for others

and you gotta make your amends.

And then you gotta live
this spiritual life.

you gotta do, you gotta do 10 and 11.

And then because of all of that, I can
go out there and serve someone else.

And what's so amazing about
Jesus, is he always comes to us.

We never go to him,

right?

he comes down, he goes up to the
mountain with Peter, rips open

this thing called the world, and
we see heaven right there, right?

The new city in Revelation
comes down to us.

There's some imagery there,
and that's not necessarily just

narrative, but again, he comes to us.

In the gospels.

Rome doesn't come to him.

He goes to Rome.

he goes here.

He goes there constantly going all goes.

and where do they go?

They go to us, they come to us.

So I just.

I am so grateful for a creator that
has so much confidence and belief

and trust in me that he would allow
me to sober up and walk with another

human being as they fight this thing
called sin and the world and find him.

You know what I mean?

It's just amazing.

amazing.

Aaron: that's really what makes
life on earth worthwhile is

when we can help somebody else.

especially help them discover or
understand like you mentioned,

I think that's why Paul was,
Praying for the Ephesians that

the eyes of their understanding.

would be open.

so that they would understand the width
and the height and the breadth and just

the how big and wonderful God really is.

Jesse: Yeah.

Yeah.

Aaron: you just, you got me going here.

Jesse: good.

Good.

Yeah.

Aaron: Yeah,

Jesse: I'll be like,
did I stir something up?

And they'll be like, yeah.

I'll be like, all right, I did my job.

I'll see you tomorrow.

Aaron: I seed myself as a seed sower.

I just throw the seeds and
God takes care of the rest.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Jesse: We just have to
show up, do the work so

MacBook Air Microphone-2: Well,
Aaron, I've really enjoyed this.

So before we wrap things up, let me just
ask you what one bit of wisdom would

you like to share with the listeners?

Out there.

Jesse: If I had one thing to share,
I don't care where it comes from.

I don't care, who says it?

do not assume that, you know.

. That is what has gotten
me into so much trouble.

and that is also what has.

allowed me to experience
this joy and peace.

I don't even have to say, I don't know.

All I have to say is I might not know.

let me let this guy finish.

So that would be my, that
would be my one thing.

you're not as bright as you think you are.

You are as pretty, but
you're not as bright.

Aaron: That sounds like humility to me.

Yeah, you reminded me of the
proverb I just read the other day.

Even a fool is thought wise
when he keeps his mouth shut.

Jesse: Yep.

Yep.

Aaron: would you, pray for our
listeners before we wrap things up?

As soon as we say amen,
I'll turn off the recording.

Jesse: Okay.

Absolutely.

thank you for letting me do this.

MacBook Air Microphone-3: Well,
I thank you for being here.

This is the first time I've had a chance
to interview another life recovery guy.

MacBook Air Microphone-4: So go ahead
and pray wherever the Lord Legion.

Jesse: Absolutely.

Dear father, I thank you.

I thank you for this technology that
brings us all together and for the

people that are going to listen to this
from wherever they are, it's just so

incredible, the tools and the places
that you put us, thank you for this

time, clearing both Jesse's and my time
to, to have a conversation like this.

I asked for your hand, over everybody
who's been a part of this Talk and

who's ever going to listen to this,
that no matter how close we are to

you, or we think we are to you, bring
us closer and let us feel your tongue.

for those of us that are maybe
further away, maybe a little angry,

maybe confused, I ask that you
descend the spirit, just nudging

enough to maybe something new can be

I cannot thank you enough for my
sobriety, For my relationship with

you, it is because of that I have
everything that I have my wife and my

children and my faith in this place.

We love you.

We love you because you loved us first.

You gave us the example.

we're even unable to love ourselves
until we realize your love for us.

Even though we will never understand it.

And we thank you.

We thank you for all the good and
the bad that brings us closer to

you, And dear Jesus, we will talk
again soon in your son's holy name

and all God's children say, amen.

Aaron: Amen.

Thank you.

Thank you so much, Eric.

Jesse: thank you.

Speaker 3: We hope you've
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It may encourage them to tell their story.

That person may even be you.

Our only criteria is
that Jesus be glorified.

Most Christians don't share their
faith because they mistakenly think

their story is not interesting enough,
or that it's self centered to talk

about themselves, or that they are not
competent to explain the gospel correctly.

But none of that is relevant.

If Jesus has changed your
life, you have a story to tell.

All of our stories are completely unique.

No one has a story like yours, and you
may be the only one who can reach someone

else through telling your experience.

So don't be intimidated.

A story is just that, a true account
of your own experience, and no one

can disagree with your experience.

When we tell what Jesus has done in
our lives, we are being obedient to his

command to go into all the world and
preach the gospel to every creature.

It's not about theology, and it's not
about how interesting or special you are.

It's all about Jesus.

So when you're ready to tell how Jesus
has impacted your life, you can let Jesse

know at his ministry website, jesseduke.

net.

There you can download guidelines
that will make it easy to

prepare to tell your story.

Thank you for listening today and Shalom.